Here Are The Breadcrumbs, Just Keep Following | Ep. 015 - Alfreda McCray

Join host Lynn Debilzen in this dynamic interview with Alfreda McCray on Redraw Your Path!

In this interview, Lynn learns about Alfreda’s journey from IT problem-solver, to project manager and people leader, to executive coach and college professor. Their conversation touches on:

• How there are often multiple ways to ascend within a career path, and how mentors and your community can impact your ascension speed and access to resources
• How receiving coaching can give you space to explore, reflect, and rewrite the stories you’re telling about yourself–professionally and personally
• Keeping all of the slices of the pie in focus, and the power of not over-indexing in one area of life at the sacrifice of other areas
• The opportunities in life to try out and experiment with new identities and skills, and the gift of choice in each moment

Tune in for a dynamic discussion on life and growth!

About Alfreda:

‌Alfreda is a life-long learner with a passion for optimizing wellbeing, reducing harm, and increasing compassion in the workplace and beyond. She is a board-certified Executive/Leadership Coach, writer, and mental health advocate with specialties in mindful emotional intelligence, resilience, and inclusion. Her background includes over 20 years of experience in professional services and consulting.

Alfreda earned her BA from Georgetown University, MA from Gonzaga University, and a certificate in Inclusive Leadership from the Robertson Center for Intercultural Leadership (CIL) at International House Berkeley. She’s currently a doctoral student in Organizational Leadership examining the intersections of identity, leadership, and authenticity.
Outside of work, Alfreda enjoys poetry, nature, travel, and all things gardening.

Connect with Alfreda:
Website: http://alfredamccray.com
LinkedIn: http://LinkedIn.com/in/alfredamccray
Find her on other socials: @alfreda.cookie.mccray

Connect with Lynn:

• www.redrawyourpath.com
• www.lynndebilzen.com
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/lynndebilzen/

Transcript

Lynn: 0:00

Hey friends, I'm Lynn Debilzen and welcome to Redraw Your Path, a podcast where I share stories of people who have made big changes in their lives and forged their own unique paths. I talk with guests about their moments of messiness, fear, and reframing on their way to where they are now. My goal is to inspire you about the shape your life could take. So let's get inspired. Hey everyone, I'm here with a new episode, new interview, and you are going to be so interested in my next guest's story. I talked with Alfreda McCray and was really just inspired by everything she had to share. A little bit about Elfrida, she is a lifelong learner. With a passion for optimizing well being, reducing harm, and increasing compassion in the workplace and beyond. She is a board certified executive and leadership coach, writer, and mental health advocate with specialties in mindful emotional intelligence, resilience, and inclusion. Her background includes over 20 years of experience in professional services and consulting. You're going to be really, really interested to hear her path. she earned her BA from Georgetown University, her MA from Gonzaga University, And a Certificate in Inclusive Leadership from the Robertson Center for Intercultural Leadership at International House of Berkeley. She's currently a doctoral student in organizational leadership, examining the intersections of identity, leadership, and authenticity. Oh my gosh, we have so much in common, because that is all what I'm interested in too. Outside of work, Alfreda enjoys poetry, nature travel, and all things gardening. You are going to love her story. Alfredo, welcome to Redraw Your Path. I'm so excited to have you joining me today. Thank you.

Alfreda: 2:03

It's a pleasure to be here, and I'm so grateful for the invitation. Thank you.

Lynn: 2:08

I can't wait to dive into your story. I'd love for you to share with listeners some context about where and how you grew up. Let's go to the beginning of your life.

Alfreda: 2:18

How it all started. Yeah, so I grew up in Western Pennsylvania, in Pittsburgh, otherwise known as Steeler Nation. so I grew up in the Midwest, and Pittsburgh wasn't necessarily known as the most diverse city. However, the neighborhood that I grew up in, my neighbors were Italian. And I remember they used to have a garden and plant tomatoes and gave us tomatoes every summer. And so I just thought that was the norm. until I moved out of Pittsburgh. so yeah, that's, that's where everything started. And then, when I was about 19 or 20 years old, I moved out of Pittsburgh and moved to Washington, DC.

Lynn: 3:00

Awesome. And was it the, the neighborly gesture of sharing, sharing a harvest that you thought was the norm or the Italian neighborhood full of, tomato filled gardens?

Alfreda: 3:14

Yeah, that's a great question. the neighborliness. Because that was the culture shock that I experienced leaving Pittsburgh, right? There's just like this Midwestern charm, that you just don't realize is there until you leave that place and go, maybe go somewhere else where, you know, it's not as prominent. so, yeah, I definitely miss that. I moved to, like I said, Washington, D. C. and which is a great city of itself and it has, charms all of its own, but that friendliness that neighborliness was something and the gardens too.

Lynn: 3:53

Absolutely. Love that. and as a fellow Midwesterner, I, I've never thought of Pittsburgh as the Midwest, but I welcome it. I welcome it. For sure. So, that's awesome. Can you say a little bit more about your family life and just, that context of, of how you grew up too?

Alfreda: 4:13

Yeah, so I was raised by a single dad, and that in and of itself was an adventure. I'm a middle child so for eight years I was, The only girl and it was like being in the military. I kind of feel like an honorary military member by way of that experience. But, my dad was super strict. very regimented, which, which actually kind of helped me later in life because I'm very, I guess, regimented myself because of that experience. yeah, he was also a police officer, so everyone in the neighborhood kind of knew who he was, and he had this reputation of, you know, Being very stern, so, you know, no guys would come to my house whatsoever or even close. So that was interesting. Yeah. Yeah,

Lynn: 5:10

Love that. Love that. So, friendly neighborhood, always getting, Shared produce from the neighborhood, single dad, police officer with, it sounds like a stern but also good reputation in the neighborhood. And, and there were boundaries, it sounds like.

Alfreda: 5:29

yeah, there definitely were there were there were a lot of boundaries. and I think. As teenagers, we have one perspective of, how life is and how our parents are parenting. But now that I look back as an older adult, I do appreciate some of those boundaries and some of that you know, rigor that was there. but I was definitely over it and it was like, okay, as soon as I have the opportunity, as soon as I save up enough money, I'm, I'm definitely gonna make a jump.

Lynn: 6:02

Mm hmm.

Alfreda: 6:03

Yeah,

Lynn: 6:04

And it sounds like you did, heading to D. C. and starting adulthood there. let's fast forward now, like I like to bookend with my guests, so where and how are you currently spending your days? Mm

Alfreda: 6:19

So I am currently in Baltimore, Maryland, so a little further north from DC so when I moved initially, it was to take a role in IT. And I am no longer in the I. T. field. I'm a full time executive coach and adjunct professor at this point. And I get to spend a lot of my time supporting leaders, individual contributors and organizations and helping them with a variety of. Personal and professional development, right? So could be anything from finding a more, more meaningful career to optimizing some skill that they have currently, finding new opportunities. it just runs the gamut, but I, I really love the work that I do now.

Lynn: 7:12

Awesome. And that's with individuals and teams that you do that work, right?

Alfreda: 7:18

I do some. Group work, I do less kind of intact teams. I might have, you know, individuals within an organization or across organizations that are interested in developing, resilience, for example, and I might work with them as a group.

Lynn: 7:35

Love that. Love that. And what do you teach as a, as an adjunct?

Alfreda: 7:39

so I teach mindfulness. And emotional intelligence for Concordia University at Irvine.

Lynn: 7:46

Oh, nice. Okay. I need you. I need you in my life. so important. And, I love that mindfulness is completely making its way into higher education and, and all the systems around us. I think it's so important.

Alfreda: 8:04

absolutely. Absolutely. I can never kind of overstate the importance of. just having that ability to be responsive versus reactive and, and responding in the way that you intend, is so important. So I'm, I'm happy that I get to be, a catalyst for that.

Lynn: 8:23

Mm hmm. We need more of those skills in our world. and I'll just speak for myself. I need more of that skill in my life, but also in the world.

Alfreda: 8:32

Yeah,

Lynn: 8:33

So we know where you started. We know where you're at now. let's go back to growing up in the beginning of your life. So most people grow up with some sort of external pressure or expectations placed on us. So those like molds that we usually didn't ask for. And I'm curious if you had any of those, in your own life and what were those? For you. Mm-Hmm.

Alfreda: 9:00

yeah. So I didn't necessarily have a lot of molds. There were molds that I placed on myself and there were, there were some, some expectations. So I was categorized as gifted. So I was in like the gifted program in school. So the expectation was that, I was smart and I, was good at school and I liked school and I still to this day consider myself a lifelong learner. and so that was, an expectation that was put upon me, but it was one I, Stepped into welcomely, like, I was, I was happy to to hold up that banner. and then my father, really didn't, he didn't really force any particular path on to me when I was younger. I was pretty convinced I wanted to be in engineering or do something computer related or, you know, something mechanical was inclined in that, like, very analytical. So I was inclined in that direction, but it was never like, you must do this or you must go this path. It was just whatever you do, just do it to the best of your ability. And, and I didn't realize how unusual maybe that was. but I, I really appreciate it in retrospect.

Lynn: 10:18

Well, and it sounds like unusual, but also supportive really. Right. Really supporting you to take the lead in making those decisions. Is that right?

Alfreda: 10:30

Yeah. my dad was such a ball of contradictions. he, he could be very chauvinist on one hand, but then say something very liberating. he really, I think, supported, so I have a, a younger sister as well. And he really supported us to be fiercely independent. and resourceful. there was a real push you could really do anything that you want to do. I was thoroughly brainwashed. So, I really did believe that, like, okay, so I had my father, but I think also my elementary school teachers as well, they never allowed us to feel less than right. And these, these were, like, my, my first teachers, my elementary school teachers, they, they just. supported us, they just encouraged us, they challenged us, but they, did so in very loving ways.

Lynn: 11:24

That's really, that's beautiful. So it sounds like they challenged you. They might've had high expectations for you, but maybe not in a specific direction that those expectations were really like at your back. And supportive.

Alfreda: 11:39

yeah, and I think part, part of what I would say my school teachers did was they, so this, the majority of my school is an all black school. And so I grew up with these phenomenal teachers, and they always kind of like, provided examples for us, you know, like luminaries that we know about, are typically elevated during the Black History Month, but, you know, like, Garrett Morgan and Ida B. Wells and Madam CJ Walker, they went out and they did X, Y, and Z, and you can do that, too. And I'm like,

Lynn: 12:14

Mm hmm. I love that.

Alfreda: 12:18

I just, yeah, I definitely am a beneficiary from their guidance and, belief in our potential.

Lynn: 12:27

I love that. And it's interesting. I'm curious how this will come up later, but you said you use the phrase thoroughly brainwashed. just curious because, you know, with those, with that support. Yeah, I believe I can do anything, right? I believe, and I'm sure, like, you as a young Black girl were believing that, and, like, wait, is that brainwashing? Or is that, is that truth? It's interesting. Mm

Alfreda: 13:01

I mean, I, I say that very, jokingly, but they, I felt like they really did, I'm sure that they knew from their own experience that there's lots of systems that are not necessarily supportive of, our identities or, or, you know, like, as a, as a black female, there's, there's, you know, Not always, doors open and for, for different reasons. And so I feel like they were just kind of fortifying their students you know, believe in themselves to believe in themselves, regardless of what, what obstacles that they might come against that they have everything felt like we had everything within us to try to a successful path forward.

Lynn: 13:47

I love that. I want, I want your teachers.

Alfreda: 13:49

I was lucky. I was lucky.

Lynn: 13:51

yeah, so let's move forward a little bit and tell me about what was that path you took out of school and, that first way you redrew your path or started to draw your path as Alfreda.

Alfreda: 14:06

Yeah, so I took some very unconventional turns. So I did start school. so after high school, went to college, but I didn't stay in school because I ran out of money. So I was, Information systems major and I went to school in Pittsburgh for a couple of years, and then I had to drop out because I just didn't have the money to continue and I immediately entered the workforce and learned that I could ascend by getting different certifications. so I started out doing like computer break fix work, and I got a certification in that area. And then I expanded to doing networking. I got a certification in that area and pretty quickly. I was like, oh, I can make money. I can make a pretty good living doing this. So that's what I did for quite a number of years and I loved it. I really, till this day, you know, love IT, love technology, love being a technologist. so that was kind of like the first, turn, I guess, was, was entering the field of IT. Yeah, it

Lynn: 15:17

Were, were you always with the same employer and was it, were they supporting you internally to ascend?

Alfreda: 15:26

Good question. I work with, several different organizations, but when I was in Pittsburgh, I feel like I became like a mascot, but I worked at a help desk for a major bank and. it was like a team of, I don't know, five or six guys and me, and I feel like they adopted me in some ways, and they, poured into me. They helped me learn stuff. They told me what I should take and, what credentials I should look into and, that was kind of, how I kind of got my leg up. they just kind of mentored me in that environment, which I can, look back on this and I am floored by how unusual that is, because I know that that is not typically, what can happen in a very male dominated Field

Lynn: 16:14

yeah, that's, that's really powerful and it sounds like a really beautiful support to have around you at that time. I'm curious, so Thinking about the point at which you realized, I'm out of money. And I might need to be leaving schools or school or might need to be making a big decision for myself like What were you feeling at that time? What were you going through? What were the thoughts in your mind? Sorry. Right,

Alfreda: 16:49

I was devastated at the time, but looking back on it, I was like, that was not necessarily a bad thing. so much of my identity was tied that tied into being a smart person. so that was kind of devastating that I had to leave school. and I think it was just I don't know, good fortune that I was able to find work in the field that I was studying. You know, once I started making money, I didn't feel bad about it at all.

Lynn: 17:18

which is I think why a lot of people, why they say go to, go to college first and don't go into the workforce because once you realize that, why would you trade that?

Alfreda: 17:28

Yeah. Yeah.

Lynn: 17:30

you said you saw yourself as a smart person. Do you think when you had to leave school, you were still seeing yourself as quote unquote, a smart person, but just in a different environment or did those thoughts about yourself start to change at all?

Alfreda: 17:45

I think in a different, honestly, in a different capacity, because I was still using my brain a lot, day to day, there's a lot of problem solving that happens. especially in just doing work in, the infrastructure space, networking and building computer networks and et cetera. So, I felt like I was continually, leveraging those skills and, you know, able to, support myself. I think the thing that really kind of, was unsettling was like, my friends were still pursuing their academics. And so, that was a little hard for me because I was like, oh, but I wish I was able to, go, travel or do these trips I wasn't ascending in the same way. So, I think that was maybe a little challenging to deal with.

Lynn: 18:37

Yeah, that makes sense. I think as humans, we want to be part of a group and we want to belong. And especially thinking about brain development in that late teens, early twenties, it's, it's hard to diverge from what friends are doing. So I appreciate you sharing that.

Alfreda: 18:55

Yeah. for sure.

Lynn: 18:56

So, you got into this it career, you gained certifications, you were starting to grow your career there. how did you redraw your path from there?

Alfreda: 19:08

There was a point where I was working for, An organization and my manager said to me, he kind of pointed out a strength that I had around organizing tasks. that was really good at, getting lists together, getting people together, getting our projects done. And he, I think at that time, was getting his project management certification. And he said, I think you might be interested. This might be something that you're good at. I think you might be good at this. And I was like, okay, yeah, let me check it out. And, I did, and I ended up studying for the exam and, getting a project management, certification. And so the shift that I've made was kind of, from being an implementer to like doing the oversight of projects. And there was a big, big project that I, had the good portion of being a part of. And I I just felt, I didn't have the word or term imposter syndrome, but that's definitely, what was happening. I was like, oh, my God. I don't know if I belong here. I don't know if I could do this. And

Lynn: 20:18

Hmm.

Alfreda: 20:19

there was a lot of struggle during that time.

Lynn: 20:22

Was that even after you had your project management certification. So you had the credentials, you just were struggling with like, how to see yourself in terms of ability and belongingness and skill level to make the work happen.

Alfreda: 20:40

exactly. I think that was my 1st time kind of stepping into the role of people leader. So I was all, and I'm super comfortable being like behind the scenes. I love behind the scenes. Oh, it's my favorite place. And so now I'm like kind of more in the forefront. I wasn't overseeing the entire project, but I was kind of further up front. it was so uncomfortable, making that transition. And I just wanted to get everything right. Right. Whatever that was.

Lynn: 21:15

It's a good student, like the good student desire.

Alfreda: 21:19

Yes.

Lynn: 21:20

Yeah. Were you still, can I ask, were you still in your twenties at that point or, or, okay. So you're still pretty young in, in the corporate space and starting to be a people leader, which is a big transition.

Alfreda: 21:34

Yeah. and I just, I just had this nagging feeling. And which was in contrast with the feedback that I was getting, but I had this nagging feeling that I wasn't doing it right. Like my peers and my supervisors were like, Oh, you're doing a great job. But then there was this feeling inside, Oh, I don't know, like this uncertainty, this, but is this the right way as if there is a, a way, a right way to do it? which there of course wasn't, but that's kind of what I was. Up against and I was, just floundering for a little bit.

Lynn: 22:11

And it's interesting. I was going to ask you the question, well, what do you think that was? What, why? But then you answered it already, right? Like you maybe have an idea of there's, there is one right way rather than like, There is Alfreda's right way to do this and that there might be many right ways.

Alfreda: 22:33

Right.

Lynn: 22:34

the job done.

Alfreda: 22:35

Yeah, absolutely. I had a very fixed perspective about what needed to be done and how it needed to be done. but I also had the good fortune, I should say, and I had the good fortune at that time of being offered coaching, and that was, so, that was tremendously helpful, which is how I learned. About what coaching was, and it just opened up so many other avenues for me personally, outside of my career as well.

Lynn: 23:10

In what ways did receiving coaching yourself help you grow into who you wanted to be or like who you needed to be in that role or as a person?

Alfreda: 23:21

I just reel me in because I feel like I could go on, but that space helped me so much because one, it gave me a space to say out loud, I don't know. And for so long, I've always kind of been the person or felt the need to have the answers to be the one to guide and direct. And so just having that space to say, I'm not sure how I'm working through this, or just the time to reflect on, my values. what was important to me, how I'm approaching things, how I'm coping, what the stories were that I was telling myself about how I needed to show up and how to reorganize those stories in a more supportive way. that process was just transformative. and it, it helped me to be and kind with myself and, be clear about, what I wanted and, you know, what was working and what wasn't working and how to make change. So it helped me tremendously, like I said, for professionally and personally, because, once I was more at ease with myself, I could, you know, You know, be more at ease with, with other people and the people that I was working with as well.

Lynn: 24:41

It sounds like a really powerful accelerator for you.

Alfreda: 24:45

Oh, gosh. Yes. exactly.

Lynn: 24:48

Was it coaching specifically that helped you redraw your path the next time or what what was the next big way you redrew your path and what did that look like?

Alfreda: 24:58

So maybe, to no surprise, I was really curious about coaching after that experience. Right? So how did, how do I do this? And, I had always, like the idea of like helping people and in IT, I got into IT, like to fix things, but I was also like helping people directly with their, their challenges and their problems, and I found that very satisfying.

Lynn: 25:24

Mm

Alfreda: 25:25

and so once I got coaching, I was like, oh, I would like to learn how to be like this catalyst for other people as well. and it got me thinking and about, you know, what does it take? What, what do I need to do to do this myself? and so the next pivot was me learning more about, coaching. I eventually, went into a, ACTP, Accredited Coach Training Program, and was coaching off the side. I was also at the same time, attracting People to me for advice or career advice, or they wanted the resume done or something along those lines. And so I, I saw that there was a path opening up there, but I continued on in IT project management for several years after that, but I did start making that pivot to coaching as well.

Lynn: 26:21

Did your mentors or folks within that IT space know that you were exploring that other path or that a path was opening up for you? Or how, how open were you about that?

Alfreda: 26:35

so to answer your first question, I had a inner circle and I let a few friends know about it, but it was kind of like. There was an uneasiness I had about telling people that I have this interest of being a coach, because it wasn't kind of like my main gig, and I was like, not sure if people, you Thought it was like a flaky? I don't know what word to use there, but for context, coaching was not as popular, as well known, as utilized maybe even. This would have been in the early 2000s as it is today, So, coaching was this thing that executives have, right? And then there were life coaches. then there was, I think there was like, the perception that this was kind of like a new agey kind of thing that people were doing. Right?

Lynn: 27:28

woo woo.

Alfreda: 27:28

Woo Yeah,

Lynn: 27:30

woo,

Alfreda: 27:31

exactly. Yeah, that's kind and I was like, I was. I knew that there was tremendous value in it, but I wasn't as open about being, about offering it, you know, as services to, to other people at the time. Yeah.

Lynn: 27:48

you struggling at all with, How you saw yourself or your own identity in terms of seeing yourself as a coach and seeing yourself as an IT project manager and people leader and bringing those together?

Alfreda: 28:01

Yeah. There was a lot of dissonance during that time. I don't have any of that now, but at that time when I was kind of making that pivot, it, it it was shaky, like trying to live in both of these worlds. And it was hard for me to conceptualize, where are you going with this? what are you going to do with this? You know? and there was just this deep seated knowing that this was a path that I needed to be on. so there was dissonance and then there was a lot of resonance. And I was Wanting to make decisions based on where my values were taking me versus where there was a lot of fear and discontent, right? The unknown. So that was a, a struggle.

Lynn: 28:46

Yeah, that, that can be hard to navigate that gray area where you've, you've identified those values and how you want to make those decisions. And, you know, You're still in the container of your current life. And how do you bring those together or and or shorten that timeline of getting from here to here's the ideal everything, right? And it's probably an everyday entire life process for all of us, unfortunately.

Alfreda: 29:19

yeah, we're, building the bridge as we walk on it. But, you know, that path may seem a little clearer to some people based on where they are, but it's all unknown. All right. It's all unknown, I want to say I decided to just keep going with it, but I feel also there were these. nudges along the way, kind of reinforcing to me, yes, you're on the right track,

Lynn: 29:47

Oh, really? Do you remember what any of those nudges were?

Alfreda: 29:50

gosh. I think they're still happening even till this day. I can't really bring anything Specific to mind, but it'll be like, maybe a training will open up or someone will reach out about something or, you just get these little nuggets that are like, yes, this is the pan. Here are the breadcrumbs. Just keep following.

Lynn: 30:14

I love that. I love that. And I love that feeling of those nuggets. so it sounds like, so you were in this space where you were still very much in your corporate job and exploring this, side. Skill set and identity, but very much on the side. How did you go about, redrawing from there? Or what, what was the next big turn? That you took.

Alfreda: 30:38

Hmm. So I stayed in, project management for, a while and there was just like a natural progression because, I wanted to work on just bigger, more complex projects. So I went from like project management, program management, and then I ended up in the management consulting space. Where you, you're working across not just a project, but it could be across, you know, an industry or you're working across, an agency that you might be supporting or a specific initiative that spans regions. So, you know, the scope just kind of expanded. And within that, I found myself. being able to work on some projects where there was a need for, I think, a program manager of a leadership development project. All right, so I'm still in program management, still in that realm, but now I'm kind of overseeing, leadership development. at the same time this is happening, I'm also, advancing in my credentials as a coach. So I'm kind of doing coaching off the side of my desk at ridiculous hours, I'm working with clients that are in, Europe or in, Middle East, so three or four o'clock in the morning, I might be up doing coaching. Yeah, it was very interesting at times.

Lynn: 32:09

Can I ask, can I ask, I read your website, right? And you focus on self care, and that being a central part of folks developing into their fullest selves. So what did self care look like for you at that time? Or how were you making sense of, I'm trying to help others, right? catalyze into their best selves, and I'm waking up at 3 30 in the morning and not getting enough sleep for myself. What did that look like?

Alfreda: 32:38

yeah. Messy at times, I will say. and part of the reason why I kind of focus on resilience and self care and well being is because I think it's still a practice I'm working on myself, and I know that that was kind of like one of the a has when I was first coached, was that I was kind of neglecting these other areas of my life. Yeah. That were super important. and so how that looked at the time, I probably was not getting as much maybe sleep as I would like to have, but some practices that I've been incorporating over time is making sure that I'm keeping the, all of the slices of the pie, which is life. In focus, right? So that I'm still engaged in things that are important to me. Um, like, for a long while as a museum volunteer, being engaged in art and culture that I'm just not over indexing in any 1 area that, work is not the fullness of who I am as an individual. So, I just. Do my best to try to keep that in mind, like, what's, what's something I can do for myself that can balance out, or that can, you know, fill up that, that deficiency that maybe I've had, I'm having in rest right now. and then I also think about, the sustainability, like, how many days out of a week do I want to, lose? Lose my eight hours of sleep. what might be sustainable for that week? Maybe I'm getting, five hours or six hours, but knowing that that's not something that I'm going to maintain indefinitely. So I have to keep those things in mind also.

Lynn: 34:23

Did you still have your own coach at that time helping you navigate that? What

Alfreda: 34:29

keep a coach, cause I think it's important for my own, well being and the International Coach Federation has a reciprocal coaching where you can coach, you can have another coach coach you and you coach another coach, and I've been in that program for many of the things my coach, brought to my attention was that, I would work on the train. I lived in Baltimore and worked in D. C. for a while, and I had a pretty long commute, and I would spend my mornings and evenings working, and then she had me add up how many hours I was working, and it was like, oh, my gosh, this is like a whole other job, and is this, you know, is this really how I want to be spending my time? Do I intentionally want to choose to continue doing this? And the answer was no, so that kind of led me and part of the reason why I was doing this is, because I was trying to coach. And have this other job, have my full time job. So, it led me to the decision at some point there might come a time where I'm going to let one of these things go and I chose to let the project management go in order to do coaching full time.

Lynn: 35:42

was that? What was that time like for you? Or were you struggling with that decision or how you maybe what narratives you were holding for yourself?

Alfreda: 35:55

I had been thinking about it for a long time, so it was just a matter of, gaining enough clients it was just numbers by the time I was ready to make that decision. so it wasn't necessarily, like, when I made the shift from IT to project manager, I didn't necessarily have that same kind of identity tension or crisis. and I was much more. I don't know, settled and making that decision was like, yeah, this is the path that I want to pursue. It was interesting because when I was working as a management consultant, there was a need on one of the projects, like there was a resource needed who had coaching certification. And it was like, there wasn't anybody else on the team. So can you fill in to do this? I was like, ah, this is a needed skill. Okay,

Lynn: 36:47

Did you say yes? Was it? Was it you? Okay.

Alfreda: 36:51

yeah. and so that got me to thinking about, what if you just did this full time, right? And I was like, oh, yeah, that sounds pretty good. and so I just looked at, I wanted to design that myself, what that could look like, what the path was to getting there. So I just. Initially, I asked my organization if they would be willing to allow me to coach full time, right? And there wasn't an opportunity there, so I looked for a path outside of the organization and started to do this, independently.

Lynn: 37:25

I love that. Well, congrats on that. How long ago was that, that you made that, that turn in your path?

Alfreda: 37:33

That was four years ago,

Lynn: 37:35

Okay.

Alfreda: 37:35

surprisingly, yeah.

Lynn: 37:37

I love that. And have you, have you struggled at all with the identity of coach and identity of entrepreneur? Or have those Come together pretty well for you.

Alfreda: 37:49

Yes, there's always a new, challenge, right? That part, I think that's kind of where I am now. I've been in professional services. All of my life and now I'm having to be an entrepreneur, which is a whole new skill set. and I think it is an identity struggle as well. I never really set out to, you know, I'm gonna do this thing to sell to people. I've always kind of come at it from a service orientation. Right? I want to provide a support or service to others to help them achieve their goals or what have you. So coming at things from an entrepreneur standpoint and having that perspective is something that I'm still kind of stretching into.

Lynn: 38:41

Is that how you're currently redrawing your path? Or what what ways have you redrawn your path since then, if any?

Alfreda: 38:50

Yeah, I think that's definitely 1 way. And then, oh, yes, I'm, I'm shifted a little bit. now that I, have gotten many, many coaching hours under my belt, I've been doing more, support for other coaches. Who might be on the path of, you know, developing as a coach, so mentoring and supervision, and educating as well, in addition to, being a professor and an entrepreneur. So lots of new stretches.

Lynn: 39:20

Yeah, well, and it sounds like multiple identities, right?

Alfreda: 39:24

Yeah,

Lynn: 39:25

not that you weren't that Complex human being when you started your IT career, right? But that now you're very explicitly wearing many hats.

Alfreda: 39:36

yeah, absolutely. And I'm glad you brought up that point. because depending on our lives, we might do many different things, or I should say we can do many different things. The opportunity to experiment and try out and see how things go, I think is a, I, I love that, that that opportunity is present, that I'm not necessarily fixed in one particular path. but I know that. It can be really uncomfortable. There are often times when I'm meeting people or I'm meeting with clients who a, you know, they're at a choice point and they feel like it's this or it's that and I have to do this or I have to do that. And it's like, really? You can, you can choose another way, right? And you don't necessarily have to do that thing for the rest of your life. you can try it on and see how it works and try something different. Um, either way, you're going to learn something about yourself in the process. And I feel like that's, that's the most important thing.

Lynn: 40:43

I love that. That, and it makes me think back to that, advice and support your elementary school teachers gave to you. And that belief that like you can do anything, right? And it sounds like one of the things you help people with is, Breaking down that like black and white mentality or that either or and helping them see the the middle ground but also the fact that things are ever evolving and can change in the future. And I know that's one thing I struggle with a ton is just figuring out that or realizing that oh yeah, I could change that decision if I wanted to.

Alfreda: 41:22

Yeah. I think choice is just a beautiful gift that we sometimes forget we have. It's available to us like in each moment to choose, right? and I really, really value independence and autonomy. So I'd love that I get to, to go one way and then go another way.

Lynn: 41:44

Absolutely. It is really beautiful. that's a perfect segue because that's amazing advice. Is there any other advice that you would give to others who are considering redrawing their path?

Alfreda: 41:58

Good question. This is going to be maybe a little hard to receive because I know it's uncomfortable. see if you can just be okay with the messiness, right? and then I think what helped me a lot was having, like I said, I was in a space where I had time to reflect. And I think that is really, really important and maybe undervalued, especially in the culture in which we live in, where things are really fast and we're all really busy. But giving yourself some time, take a moment to reflect and think about why, your why. Why do you want to make this choice? What's important? And, There's lots of uncertainties, but what do you hope will go right by making this choice? focus on the thing that you're really looking forward to, more so, or maybe give it as much attention as the thing that you think might go wrong. Yeah.

Lynn: 43:00

I love that. and I'm, I'm going to be writing sticky notes all afternoon and posting that advice all over because, what I heard you say was be okay with that messiness. So, building that muscle of, tolerating discomfort and That space, that middle space, and then focusing on that positive envisioning and creating space for yourself to do that rather than fixating on the fear that might be coming up.

Alfreda: 43:29

Yeah, right. And that's not to discount the fear, because I think that, fear can be a partner with you in the car, but it doesn't need to drive the car. it's giving you maybe some helpful information, some things that you might want to consider and mitigate. but it doesn't necessarily need to be the full story or run the show, right? It could be a partner with you and not, not pull you along. so, yeah, I know that's easier said than done, but just practicing with that,

Lynn: 43:59

Yeah. And I appreciate that metaphor. I'm very visual. So seeing a car and being able to put the fear in the backseat or, Hey, maybe it's even a hatchback with a trunk and you can put that fear in the trunk as long as you can still hear it a little bit, you know, drown it out. But I, I appreciate that. Alfreda, I'm so grateful for you sharing your wisdom today and, and your story with listeners. Can you share where people can find you and is there anything you want to promote or share with folks?

Alfreda: 44:32

Yeah. Thank you for that. I think I'm probably most active on LinkedIn. So folks can find me on LinkedIn, Alfreda McCray, MCCRAY. and what I do is try to share my little nuggets of wisdom on that platform.

Lynn: 44:48

Awesome. I love it. well, thank you so much and, I can't wait to get your story out there for listeners.

Alfreda: 44:55

Thank you so much, Lynn. It's been a pleasure.

Lynn: 44:59

Thanks for listening to Redraw Your Path with me, Lynn Debilzen. If you like the episode, please rate and review. That helps more listeners find me. And don't be shy, reach out and connect with me on LinkedIn and sign up for my e-newsletter at redrawyourpath.com. I can't wait to share more inspiring stories with you. See you next week.