Redraw Your Path

You Can Change Your Mind Later | Ep. 016 - Arden Evenson

• Lynn Debilzen • Episode 16

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Join host Lynn Debilzen in this intriguing interview with Arden Evenson on Redraw Your Path!

In this interview, Lynn learns about Arden’s journey with redrawing her path, from even before she started her career, to her present day as a Content Writer and Brand Strategist Solopreneur. Their conversation touches on:

  • How following a feeling of emotional safety and exploring a strand of what is interesting to can steer us down the right path, even when it goes against previous ideas we’ve imagined about our future lives
  • How different privileges and our values intersect with the relationships we have with work
  • The notion of work-life balance and the courage to pursue ease and fulfillment, even if it deviates from societal expectations
  • How it’s okay to not want what everyone else wants, and how important it is to get in touch with what you want to be known for

Tune in for a dynamic discussion on life and growth!

About Arden:

Arden lives in Brooklyn, NY with her cat Penelope, a nerdy husband, and a near constant desire to hop on a plane bound for a tropical island. She's known for making unconventional career decisions, encouraging people to define success for themselves, and changing systems to work for more of us.

Today, her work is focused on inclusive financial brands who are blazing new trails in how we earn money, foster financial independence, and build wealth – including expanding who has access to these solutions.

She partners with teams to develop their key content themes and messages, identify the right platforms and cadence for sharing content, and draft posts with a brand voice that connects and converts. If you’re doing things differently, she wants to make sure people know about it.

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Connect with Arden:
Follow Mother May I? on Substack: https://babymaking.substack.com/
Website: https://fireflyadvising.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ardenelizabeth/

Resources mentioned:

Connect with Lynn:

  • www.redrawyourpath.com
  • www.lynndebilzen.com
  • https://www.linkedin.com/in/lynndebilzen/
Lynn:

Hey friends, I'm Lynn Debilzen and welcome to Redraw Your Path, a podcast where I share stories of people who have made big changes in their lives and forged their own unique paths. I talk with guests about their moments of messiness, fear, and reframing on their way to where they are now. My goal is to inspire you about the shape your life could take. So let's get inspired. Hello, friends. I am thrilled to share today's episode with you. When I first connected with my guest last year, she delivered some mind blowing advice to me that, Now that I think about it, I'm like, why is this so mind blowing? But it was for me. She said, and if you don't like it, you can always change your mind. And I was like, what? Girl, what? Anyways, I hope you enjoyed today's episode. I am joined by Arden Evenson. Arden lives in Brooklyn, New York with her cat Penelope, a nerdy husband and a near constant desire to hop on a plane bound for Tropical Island at any time. She's speaking to my soul. She's known for making unconventional career decisions, encouraging people to define success for themselves and changing systems to work for more of us. Today, her work is focused on. Inclusive financial brands who are blazing new trails in how we earn money, foster financial independence, and build wealth, including expanding who has access to these solutions. Yes, please. She partners with teams to develop their key content themes and messages, identify the right platforms and cadence for sharing content, and draft posts with a brand voice that connects and converts. If you're doing things differently, she wants to make sure people know about it. And what I love about Arden and about our conversation is she shares many examples of how she does things differently and really stands in that power. So I really hope you enjoy this episode. I'm excited to hear your feedback and feel free to reach out. love you all. Enjoy. Hey Arden, so great to see you. Thanks for joining Redraw Your Path today. How are you?

Arden:

I'm doing good. it's so, it's so good to be here. I'm so happy. I'm so happy we could make this work.

Lynn:

Me too, me too. so let's start at the very beginning of Arden's life. Can you share some context about where and how you grew up?

Arden:

Sure. So I grew up in, I would say, suburban North Carolina, outside of Winston Salem, the hometown of Krispy Kreme donuts and cigarettes. Just a real health center. And yeah, I grew up, my mom was a preschool teacher and then a kindergarten teacher. My dad worked in and eventually managed and owned a restaurant. And I was a public school kid, but with the I think an important and like privileged caveat in that it was like a really, really strong school system. And so I was identified as a highly gifted student. You know, overachiever. It's all of second grade, because that's when we know what's going on with people. And the way that the North Carolina school system works is, or worked at that time, in the, I guess, early 90s, is that those kids got, you got tracked, basically, by how you scored on these tests in second grade. And so I got moved to a school with other kids, public school still. That were all labeled highly gifted, highly academically gifted, and we bumped up a couple grade levels on most things kind of immediately in third grade. And so, I feel like for the most part, like it was a pretty, pretty pleasant childhood. you know, we didn't have a ton of money, but in that time period, a two parent household with, you know, You know, making probably 40k each a year was like enough actually, for us to, you know, still be able to take vacations and, worry about money, but not worry about where the next meal was going to come from or something like that. And so I stayed in that area of North Carolina, the same house since I was five through high school. And, you know, took all of the AP classes, did all of the extracurriculars, ran track and cross country, also worked some jobs, also did some volunteering, and then did the college application thing and, and ended up going to uh, A small liberal arts school in the middle of nowhere Tennessee called Sewanee. also known as the University of the South, or the University of the whole South, as my husband likes to call it,

Lynn:

love that.

Arden:

and yeah, so I spent, I spent most of my, you know, I, all of my childhood really in, in the south, uh, fairly, I would say liberal for North Carolina area, fairly purple area, uh, two pretty, fairly progressive Southern parents and, family nearby, uh, younger brother, but a lot younger, seven years younger, so I joke that, he helps me from being a really obnoxious only child, which, I think I would have been on the path to be, that, I'm already, like, Spotlight. Pay attention to me. Look what I'm doing. Tell me I'm doing a good job. I have the best plan for this. And I think that that would only be more ratcheted up if I hadn't learned how to like share and care for someone else.

Lynn:

Yeah, which as a seven year old can do that, right? It's like much harder for a three or four year old to do that. and you've already been an only child. So basically you were an only child. And then he, he came along and you had a sibling.

Arden:

Yes. Yeah. I remember the like neighborhood moms calling me out for like my hip cocked out to the side that I already had learning how to Hold this baby while I was seven.

Lynn:

Mm hmm. Yeah, you got to show him off to the neighborhood, to the friends.

Arden:

Yeah. And I think he really enabled, me in a lot of ways to stay a kid, I think for a little bit longer, right? Like I had to go on the playground with him and I had to take him to these things and I had to go to these things and really they were fun. It was like fun to still be a little bit of a kid and not feel like I had to be like a cool teen about anything. I could just kind of embrace it that it was like for him that I was doing stuff that the fact is that I enjoyed doing.

Lynn:

Yeah. Well, and as you're trying to navigate being a so gifted child and so just academically gifted and gifted in all of the things, I imagine that that is really helpful to have some like little child's play in your life.

Arden:

Yeah. I, even at the time, I remember like noting it and being really grateful for it.

Lynn:

Definitely. So, okay. I want to ask you, and I'm going to switch these questions around a little bit just because we're already there, but, any external pressures or expectations that you felt were placed on you beyond the, like you mentioned, being tracked already as gifted very young? Anything that you felt like you were given that you didn't ask for?

Arden:

mean, I think it's just super common in that generation. I was born in 86. I think it's just really common. For all of us to have felt the need to really overachieve. Like academic success is the thing that we were supposed to be doing and pursuing. It was like you worked hard in high school to get into a good college to get a good job. that's what

Lynn:

hmm. Mm

Arden:

I give my mom a hard time now that like, when I would come home with a report card of six A's and one B, the only thing we talked about was the B.

Lynn:

hmm. Mm hmm.

Arden:

is I was pretty intrinsically motivated, which my mom has, has said that I wanted to do well at these things and I wanted to work hard. and so I don't know how much of that was like, it just felt yeah, like the whole environment was pushing us to do this, right? it didn't even feel like a pressure. It was just everything. everything was telling us that we were supposed to work really hard and study more and get good grades and then really challenge ourselves academically. I mean, when I started college. The Sewanee four classes was like a full kind of credit, a full course loan. And I didn't feel challenged enough my first semester of college by that course load. So I asked and had to go through a special process with the deans to get a fifth class.

Lynn:

Oh, wow.

Arden:

No one made me do that. Right? but I was like, oh, I'm not being challenged enough. I should do more.

Lynn:

Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Did your peers around you feel the same way? Or were they like, Arden is off her rocker.

Arden:

I think that. they do a little bit of selection process, right? That freshman year and kind of helping you sort of reselect almost like your peer group that like, who are you living with? Who are you living across the hall from? Who are you in a first year program with? And so I think I was pretty well tracked with other people like that. I also started off being pre med. And so a lot of my friends still today are now doctors. And so those are not chill, low achieving humans. And so I don't recall anyone really questioning it.

Lynn:

Yeah, no, that I mean, and it makes sense because I'm resonating so much with, with your story completely. I'm curious, so when you went through the college selection process and just thinking about your parents being a teacher and your dad managing a restaurant, and you choosing pre med, did you feel like you had pressure to go down like a professional services route?

Arden:

You know, I think that it was just, of course, that's what I would do. of course, the options were being a doctor or a lawyer. Those were the options, right? if you wanted to do better and you're a smart person, that's what you did. I found some aspects of medicine interesting. I loved biology. I did like science, but a semester into college, I did realize that I never wanted to be a doctor and I should probably not be pre med anymore.

Lynn:

mm hmm,

Arden:

and I still remember my mom was like, okay, so you're going to be pre law then.

Lynn:

obviously.

Arden:

yeah, and it wasn't like you have to do this. It was just like, so obviously then you're doing the other thing that people that are smart and looking to do better than their parents who were a teacher and restaurant manager would do. Obviously you're going to be pre law,

Lynn:

Mm hmm. Mm

Arden:

Um, and so I just don't feel like I had a lot of exposure. To like what other jobs looked like, right? Like we did, I did know a lot of doctors and lawyers and I knew teachers and I knew people that worked in restaurants and you knew other people that you interacted with, you know, and sort of service industry jobs, but I didn't know about what any corporate work was. I didn't know communications work or marketing work that I do now. what is that?

Lynn:

Mm hmm. Well, and I'm, on the edge of my seat to hear how that went in terms of well, of course you'll be pre lob, but I like to bookend first. So tell listeners where and how you're currently spending your days and then we'll go back because I'm curious. how that one redrawing of your path ended up.

Arden:

Yeah. So today I am a Brand strategist, content strategist, writer for inclusive financial brands, which when I was recently visiting my mom, she was like, I can't wait for my friends to ask you what you do so that you can explain it to them. So maybe I'll finally understand it.

Lynn:

what?

Arden:

And essentially I was like, okay, I help either startups usually, or nonprofits who are doing good in the financial world. And yes, there are a few examples. I help them communicate what it is they're doing. And that might be so that they can get their solutions and products in the hands of people that can really use them and benefit from them. It might be to help them get funding. It might be to get in front of folks who can refer their products to the people that need them. And so that kind of communications and sort of marketing support could come in a few different forms. But I am a, I'd say a writer at my core. And so a lot of that work comes down to kind of the language and the messaging that those companies are using.

Lynn:

Which I love. I feel we're very meta right now because by you translating what brand strategists to inclusive financial brands means into plain language, that's a perfect example of how you communicate to, to the layperson what it is that you do. Perfect. okay. So let's go back to, The pre med decision. based on what you shared, I'm assuming that's the first way you redrew your path in life, but correct me if I'm wrong.

Arden:

Yeah. I would actually say it's probably the second.

Lynn:

Oh! Mm

Arden:

so when I was, and it's not going back far, but like applying to colleges, I really thought that I. wanted to go to UVA. UVA is a somewhat difficult school to get into from out of state. I got accepted. I got a little bit of scholarship money. I thought cool, this is where I'm going. And I actually only applied to Sewanee as a favor to my grandfather because it's where he went to college. I was not going there. I was an independent 18 year old woman, and you are not going to tell me what to do. But I got invited up for the weekend, for a scholarship weekend, where we did some interviews, and got a chance to experience the campus for myself instead of through his eyes and his experience, you know, 50 years before. And I fell in love with it. It's the only small liberal arts school I applied to. It was smaller than my high school. It wasn't in a city or a town really like most of the other places. It wasn't like any of the other places that I'd been accepted to or had planned to attend, but it felt right for me. It felt, I felt safe there. And I, Decided that I would rather be a bigger fish in a smaller pond than a smaller fish that was fighting with all of the other small fish in this bigger pond of other overachievers who all would have had the same background as I did. My dad had very high standards for me, and that was not a welcomed, decision.

Lynn:

Oh, interesting. Did you feel like you consciously were aware of that fish and pond metaphor at that time? Okay, tell me, yeah, tell me more.

Arden:

I don't know, I mean, I just, I think that was almost, the beginning of me shifting away from, Needing to be at the top all of the time, like needing to be the best at everything and needing to fight to be the best that like starting to trust a little bit of what I was good at and where I knew that I would be happy and could bring something to the table and succeed and flourish and not worry as much about class rank, or, or GPA. And start, sort of moving away from that. It just felt like a move away from kind of the high school experience in which we were all very kind, honestly, like I think I had a pretty like gentle and kind high school experience, but like we were still pretty competitive and we were really academic focused. And I think that I craved moving away from that and having that kind of running my whole life. and another big benefit, to be honest, is that. You know, a lot of these private schools, while their price tags are much higher than the state schools, their scholarship programs and endowments are a lot more generous. And so I got a 50 percent scholarship based on merit, and they have a thing that if you get any merit based aid, they will cover the rest of your need in grants and not loans.

Lynn:

Wow,

Arden:

we did not have a lot of money then. And It cost me, my mom jokes that it cost less for her to send me to college than it would have been to keep me at home. And so I got to graduate without debt. And I, it's not something I fully appreciated at the time. but it's something that I really appreciated for honestly, the professional freedom that it's given me since then.

Lynn:

Oh my gosh, 100 percent understand that, from the other perspective, right? And I'm curious, you said that it was the start of you trusting yourself and what you needed and where you would be happy. Was that a challenging conversation with your dad? Did you have to like, really think through that and go through people pleaser tendencies at all?

Arden:

So I feel like the thing that I did not go into for the sake of, The length of the story is that my dad was not the best guy. We didn't have a terrible relationship, but I always give my mom the credit for the fact that we had a pretty decent relationship. And so I honestly kind of learned to like discount his opinion pretty early and realized that it had a lot to do with him and a lot less to do with me. that I think a lot of the pressure he was putting on me was as his, second chance at achieving the goals that he wanted to achieve for himself. And so my therapist would love that you ask this question. I'm sure that I felt a little bit disappointed or annoyed, honestly, at the moment, but I don't think I was surprised and it didn't matter. everyone else was kind of on board with this being the decision that I wanted to make. And so he was not the most important opinion in my life.

Lynn:

I'm like over here cheering on 18 year old Arden because that's so aware and really beautiful for an 18 or 17 year old to be able to go through that decision and just Take someone's opinion and realize that it's their opinion and it's in their box and it's about them.

Arden:

Yeah, I mean, I think anyone that's grown up with, challenging parental dynamics has had to become an adult maybe rather quickly. And so, I think some of that, yeah, self awareness and just, yeah, deciding how his opinion fit into my, worldview was something I'd gotten some, some practice on, I think, by that point.

Lynn:

That's awesome. Love that. Okay, so that was the first big way you redrew your path. You became a Sewanee, Tennessee girl, not a UVA. so tell us about that second time you redrew your path then. Was it that pre med decision?

Arden:

Yeah. it happened within my freshman year and I started out taking I had a very structured approach to my freshman year that, you know, what are the science classes that I would need to take to be pre med and what are some of the other kind of general curricular requirements we needed for graduation? Let's just start moving through that because. Even if you were pre-Med at Sewanee, you had to major in something else that wasn't a major in and of itself. So you could major in biology or you could major like some of my friends did in like history or English, like something totally different. And so I was like, I still have to figure out what this major is. it's so funny. I like picture myself at a cross country meet, sitting outside. And being like, Oh, I've never wanted to be a doctor,

Lynn:

And that realization point. Boom.

Arden:

never something I've wanted to do. and again, I find some of it interesting. It wasn't that like someone forced me into this thing I'd been good at the sciences. I was rocking through physics because that was the thing you needed to take and I'd just taken AP physics senior year of high school. So I was like, let's get that over with. I was starting to like physics. I was like, maybe this is what my major is going to be. But yeah, I just, I had this realization again from my memory and which can't be trusted, but like seemingly out of nowhere. I'm sure it was tied to what classes were we taking the next year or something, but I was just like, I don't want to, that's not what I want to do. and so I remember surprising my mom and her being like, okay, then you're going to be pre law. And I think it's probably a few different conversations and, I think her, her concerns are much more concerns and worries, right? She wanted me to, be in a better position than she was, financially. and so, I ended up majoring in economics it was still intended to be a pretty safe decision that I wasn't majoring in, not that I would, French literature or philosophy or art history. Like it was like a thing that I could see and nothing wrong with those majors, but for me, it was like a thing that I could see a clear career path. and direction from, and that's something that was important to me. yes, maybe I wasn't going to be pre med or pre law, but I was going to make sure that I left college with like real skills where I could get work.

Lynn:

Mm-Hmm. Did you have a sense of what you wanted your career path to look like as an economics major? Like what, what was sexy or what was calling

Arden:

no, I mean, I did find it interesting. And I think that it makes sense that I found behavioral economics interesting, what influences people, what incentivizes them, what causes them to make certain decisions. I find that really interesting. And, and I think the fact is, is that communications and marketing is a lot about that same way of thinking. And so I think I found that piece interesting. It was also something that I felt like I was good at. I had a good initial teacher that encouraged me, a professor that encouraged me to major in it. But the fact is I made a really conscious decision by the end of my senior year that I was a girl who was good at math and I should use that to my advantage and pick a more quantitative field to major in because I was going to be an unusual choice within that, sort of sea of people.

Lynn:

Which is really smart from like a strategy perspective, but not what every 20 year old or, college student is thinking about. At all.

Arden:

No. And I think I also was like, I felt like econ was pretty close to business and I was like, you know, this is going to be useful no matter what. I didn't feel like I knew what I was going to do with it, but I just felt like no matter what I would be able to lean on it in some way.

Lynn:

So it sounds like that, redrawing of your path was from a deep knowing and not, it didn't cause you a ton of stress or, a lot of time really, wading through the darkness. It was really a knowing of, I never wanted to be a doctor. what else makes sense? And here we go. Is that right?

Arden:

yeah, I, I think I tend to be fairly decisive, in these kinds of moments. And so, you know, it, it took a second to figure out what's the, what's the gap, what's going to fill this pre med gap? What am I going to do instead? and it wasn't that I was like drawn to economics as in this is my passion, Because I honestly didn't believe I was going to find my passion,

Lynn:

Oh.

Arden:

I was like, this is good. This is good. I find it interesting. I'm good at it. It'll be good for work. Perfect.

Lynn:

that is really interesting. You didn't believe that you would find your passion. I'm curious if you still believe that today. And how does that square with, I think of some of the advice, I think, based on your birth year. We're three years apart. 83 baby. And I think a lot of the advice I've heard is Follow your passion, right? There's a quote like, if you find your passion, you'll never work a day in your life. Yeah. How does that square?

Arden:

I Don't spend a lot of time trying to make work, be my passion, Trying to get those Venn diagrams to overlap more. I want to like my work, I want my work to not drain me. I want to find it interesting. I wanna feel good about the work that I'm doing, but I'm always gonna be most passionate about my relationships and my community and my engagement with people and like seeking out silly ways to have joy and have a nice time. that's what I'm following and like looking for more of. And so that doesn't mean that at some point I won't. end up in a job that ends up being more overlapping with my passions than what I have now, but I'm not trying to find that. I'm not like, I'm not, I'm not searching for that fit.

Lynn:

I love that. Thanks for like going down that path with me because, as soon as you said that, I was like, but wait, aren't we supposed to? And just thinking through all of those, those expectations and that advice we all, we all get. Yeah,

Arden:

say that, If I could pick my dream job or was doing anything, it would just be doing this. I would just be a talk show host. and so sure, if we, if we ever get to that point, if my, Instagram stories really take off. then maybe I'll be closer to my passion at that point. But even then, I think it's closer, but I don't, I don't think it's the thing. I'm not, I just, I don't feel like I'm seeking that.

Lynn:

that's awesome. And I, I just want to give you credit because how I found you was through your podcast, I think it was your first podcast or your first iteration of your podcast and you were a talk show host. So boom, you're doing it.

Arden:

Yeah. Well, as you know, podcasts are a lot of work. I have aspirations to start another one, but I also want to be, yeah, I don't know. Everything's about trade offs, right? is that how I want to be spending my time versus other things? And it's a thing to be mindful of and a thing that I keep thinking about, and I think at some point I will do again, but when it's the right time, we'll just kind of have to see.

Lynn:

Absolutely. all right. So you became an econ major. what is the next big way that you redrew your path?

Arden:

So, I, just to fill in the gaps a little bit, so I unsurprisingly did my internships in finance, I think as an econ major. I had several job offers lined up

Lynn:

Woo.

Arden:

in 2009. So they all got rescinded. and so I, I was about to say I got lucky. That's not true. I really hustled and, uh, got myself a short term job at Stanford because I'd attended a program um, one summer and I basically called them up and was like, hi, hello. I recall that people from previous programs. could work for you part time. I would like one of those jobs.

Lynn:

Whoa, Arden way to go asking for what you want.

Arden:

So I got one of those jobs. I had to interview a few people, but I got one of those jobs. It was for only the summer. I was like a Southern girl. I went to the university of the whole South. And so I was like, this is gonna be a great time in San Francisco for the summer. And then I'm gonna come back to Atlanta and figure it out. But instead I, and Atlanta's where I did a lot of internships, but instead I moved back home and waited tables and applied for jobs all over the country and all sorts of different things. Ended up back at Stanford in another temp job, but this one 10 months that eventually turned into kind of a full time thing. For all of the many, many faults of the Silicon Valley and like startup culture and venture capital, I really give that place, just the Bay Area in general. A lot of credit for like being my education, after college that up until that point, everything had been a pretty thoughtful decision or you know, it's, yeah, I left pre med, but I like majored in this other pretty surefire thing. And yes, I didn't go to the top school, but I went to this other school that was also good where I knew that I could do good things and it was going to be fine. and the Bay Area is just forget meritocracy.

Lynn:

Mm hmm.

Arden:

forget, forget traditional paths. Forget doing what people tell you to do. take risks, go crazy. And I was, I think, pretty risk averse up until that point. And what that enabled me to do is from Stanford, I went and worked for a now very large company called SoFi that at the time was 35 people. It was a really hard place to work. New York Times would be happy for you to read their article on that that came out in 2017, 2018.

Lynn:

I'll link to it in the show notes. Mm

Arden:

I didn't write it, but I'm not disagreeing with any of it. really hard place to work. And I left that job and started freelancing at 25. which what an insane thing to do. I didn't have any clients lined up, but I was doing PR and social media. In the process of that, I learned about this thing called content marketing, which like you can blame for any company that sends you like long form emails or long form articles, basically like that was the, that was all the rage and I was like, okay, there's something here. And we had a freelance consultant that we were hiring to do some writing. And I was like, I can probably do that. and this is making me miserable. And so, yeah, I quit my job, no clients, no plan, and started freelancing. For the first time.

Lynn:

Wow. Okay. I have so many follow up questions. and I think one of the first ones I want to ask is around just like how you saw yourself and even just going back a little bit to your move to the Bay Area, you said you saw yourself as a Southern girl, right?. And so can you talk a little bit about any reframing you had to do for yourself to be able to see yourself as successful in this very new environment? Mm-Hmm.

Arden:

I think one of the funny things is that, and I still actually honestly hold onto this a little bit, is that if I moved back to North Carolina, that's not success and that's a crazy thing because there's You know, there's Raleigh and like the research triangles There are a lot of great jobs. They're really smart people doing really good, successful work. But going back to North Carolina, like that's what failure looks like. and I think even staying in Tennessee would have felt like that too. That like Atlanta was the city, right. The hub of this, in the, like the metropolitan hub of the South. And so. Leaving felt good. working at Stanford felt good.

Lynn:

Mm-Hmm.

Arden:

it was certainly something that people like to hear and that made them excited. It was the first time my dad seemed really excited about what I'd achieved.

Lynn:

Mm-Hmm.

Arden:

and so just being there was, I think, think I felt successful being there and that I'd gotten this job and I kept getting promoted. but what was interesting is actually come the end of my like two and a half, three years there. part of the reason I started looking to leave was because I wasn't going to get promoted anymore that I'd already been promoted pretty quickly for someone my age and experience level; higher ed is pretty, it's pretty hierarchical and, and so I just knew that there weren't necessarily going to be a lot of growth opportunities for me in terms of learning and getting paid more and getting title bumps. And I think the title bump thing in particular was like a real focus of my first, probably decade 12, 13 years of my career is really moving up that corporate ladder was something that was really on my mind and I sort of kind of capped out. I sort of hit the top of what I think I could do within that environment for the foreseeable future. And so that was part of the drive to start looking to go to a startup.

Lynn:

Interesting. Well, and that. title bump piece, you said you left SoFi in your mid twenties, right? to go freelance. And so how did that kind of title seeking, go with the, now I'm a freelancer, I'm a contractor, I'm an entrepreneur.

Arden:

so that's changed a lot for me. I have gone in and out of freelancing and full time work three times. before this last time, they were all temporary moves. I entered them being like, this is good for me right now. Let me get out of a toxic job environment. At the time, my now husband and I were also planning on being digital nomads where that was really a term, working remotely, living abroad for a year. And I was like, it's going to be so much easier if I'm a freelancer to do this. this is the perfect time also for that reason to move too. The second time, similar. I was in a full time job and I was like, I'm unhappy. This is really stressful. This is really hard. And I know I don't have to be unhappy and I don't have to work this hard. And I was feeling the itch to get back into FinTech and finance, because at that point that was a job that was more in terms of like political communications, progressive communications. And so they, up until recently, these were all transitions for me, get out of a hard thing, make the job search easier, make some money while you can without working quite as much. And it wasn't until this last time leaving a full time job that-in'21-, that I was like, Oh, I'm happier working for myself and I don't care about moving up a corporate ladder anymore.

Lynn:

Mm. That sounds like a huge, huge realization to have.

Arden:

I mean, I think a lot of us right through the pandemic really shifted our relationships with work and how, like how that fits into our lives. And that was just a big part of it for me is I just didn't want work to be such a big part of my life, and I didn't want it to define me anymore.

Lynn:

Mm-Hmm. Which is, I think in. Especially in the U. S. where we use work as our identity so often, that's really brave to be able to step out of the corporate space, like full time employed corporate space, and be able to unravel that from your identity a bit.

Arden:

Yes. yeah, it's so funny, I've talked to friends about this idea of it being brave, and I don't know if it feels brave, it feels bold, and I'd also say I, want to give the caveat through all of this that I had partner privilege. throughout this process. And even the first time I left my job, I looked at my then 26 year old boyfriend and was like, can you cover my$700 rent for a couple of months while I figure this out? and so, you know, I have that now in the form of health insurance. that allowed me, yes, it was a bold move for my identity, but I also want to acknowledge that there was a financial safety net there that was really critical to being able to unravel that other stuff while not stressing out as much about our bank accounts.

Lynn:

Yeah. Oh my gosh. Totally understand that. And I'm glad you named that too because I think partner privilege is real and it is It's something I definitely have felt in my transition, over the last year, year and a half, where I had partner privilege when I left a job and then lost partner privilege sometime in that, identity work. And I'm so grateful that I did. But now, Having that partner privilege again, it's, it's very real. It changes the decisions you might make. It changes the risk tolerance that you might have, from, from not having a partner. Right. And, and like always the grass is greener on the other side. Right. I'm going to acknowledge that, but It's definitely something real, and especially when we think about healthcare or other things, other systems, that are attached to the working system in the U. S., that's huge.

Arden:

yeah. And I, I think you'll appreciate this, you know, talking about how, how sort of parents reacted to these various, twists and turns. Every time I've left my job, until this last one, the first two times I left my job, my mom's biggest concern was how my husband was going to react to it.

Lynn:

Ah,

Arden:

I mean, you know, that's connected to a lot of other things we can work through in therapy. one of which I think is just, she was like, Oh, you found a really good one. We don't have a history of finding really good ones in this family. Don't mess it up.

Lynn:

don't scare them away.

Arden:

Yeah. Like by putting this pressure or whatever on them. And of course the reality is, is that my husband and I had many, many, many conversations before I did this, right? this wasn't a spur of the moment thing. I didn't just run it by him the night before. it was a thing that we discussed and had a real plan around, but that was the biggest pushback I got from my mom at any point. Wasn't like, can you do it, or you're not going to be able to do it, or it was definitely a lack of understanding and fear for sure, but it was mostly a fear of What if you scare this person away?

Lynn:

But he finally loves you. But what if?

Arden:

He seems really good, but what if, so don't hold on

Lynn:

Yep. Yep. Don't change anything. love that. you mentioned several turns. I know, which I love, and that's why I, your story resonated with me so much the first time we connected. But, in any of those turns, is there anything you'd want to highlight in terms of, ways that you had to start seeing yourself differently or changing that identity, within your own mind, to be able to, find inner peace? Or was it not really that much of a struggle?

Arden:

I don't think I was aware of the struggle,

Lynn:

Mm hmm.

Arden:

until this last kind of turn of just like, it doesn't have to be this way, it doesn't have to be this way, like we don't have to do things like everybody else. I don't have to do the things that I thought I wanted to do. I get to change my mind. I get to do things differently. And it just wasn't. It just, it took me a really long time, but not super consciously to come to that conclusion for myself. for whatever reason, this like memory is sticking out that there was a period of time where I worked for a year at this nonprofit political progressive communications agency and agencies are hard environments. People were very nice there. I met a lot of great people, some of my closest friends, much less toxic environment than so far, uh, had been. And so I remember having a conversation with my manager and she was like, you just need to not care so much. You just need to not try so hard and not work so much. And I was not ready to hear that. I was like, I don't know how to do that. That's not my personality. I can't, that's not possible. And now I'm the one that's like, let's stop working so much. I don't like to work that much. I don't want to work that hard. Like I can do really good work in a lot less time, but I don't want to be working all the time. I don't want to be working that much. And I'm very willing and free to admit that. And that's Hilariously now, that's the part of my, identity. people know that I work hard and do good work, but they also know That I am someone that doesn't love to work that much. I

Lynn:

hmm. Mm hmm. And it sounds like when your boss took you aside and said that, that, really hit, hit a nerve or like hit at your core a little bit.

Arden:

just

Lynn:

Yeah.

Arden:

It was advice very much given in a supportive way to try and be helpful. But I was just like, that isn't possible. That's not who I am. Right. I don't know how to do that. like it was a joke in that, agency that I would always come into a meeting being like, okay, is everyone done with their agenda? Here are my list of concerns about things that could go wrong. We just went through arden's list of concerns at the end of every meeting because I, wasn't gonna miss anything. We're gonna get, and here are my three backup plans if this goes wrong. and so, yeah, I just think that's been a really, that shift was a long time coming, but not something I really actively thought about.

Lynn:

Well, and it's interesting because as someone who resonates with other people telling them they need to not care so much, to me, I'm like, but that's one of my strengths. Like what? But that is one of the things that makes me good at what I do. So it's, yeah, it's interesting to just Unravel.

Arden:

Yeah, and I still care a lot. but I am trying to learn to not take that last step. That step that's only optimizing at that last 1%, but it's taking just as much effort as the last 20 percent did. we, talking to myself, got to let that go. that, I am able to To produce really high quality stuff without stressing myself out about these like final details. And the other thing is that like, when something goes wrong, I figure it out. Every time.

Lynn:

Mm hmm.

Arden:

time. It doesn't matter what it is. Personal, professional, something completely unexpected comes in front of me and I'm like, oh, okay, well we have to deal with this is what it is now.

Lynn:

hmm. We'll figure it out.

Arden:

We always do.

Lynn:

Yeah. So smart. So smart. are there any other ways that you redrew your path? Because it sounds like there was some zigzagging, right? in and out of full time roles and freelancing and then now really, embracing your identity as a solopreneur. Mm hmm.

Arden:

Yeah,

Lynn:

any other ways that you've redrawn your path?

Arden:

I mean, I've been in and out of like more traditional, I say that in quotes, because like more on the tech side, but like more kind of, I'm saying more bro y. I've been on the more bro y side of finance in a lot of different ways. And I've also been in and out of kind of the nonprofit impact space too, and kind of gone back and forth. I think every time I leave finance, I think that that's it. And this is a good background for me to have. It's a good thing for me to understand, but I keep coming back and no one's pulling me, no one's forcing me. It's not that there's a job that like gets me to change my mind. I just keep coming back For better or for worse, mostly worse, money is what we need to do a lot of things. To have safe housing, to get a good education, to be able to provide for our families, to be able to access health care, like all of this stuff is tied to having some level of financial security. And so for me, it was figuring out that while I do care about a lot of these other impact areas, the place that I can have the most impact is through my background and understanding of finance. And it's through that like communications and marketing skill set. And so it just took a while for me of going back and forth between these worlds and to find there's actually kind of an overlap right in a place where I can I can do both and so that just feels like I think of it less, I was just redrawing my path and just it's just been a lot of drawing my own path and figuring out what that path even looks like and where on earth it's going. And I don't know where it's gonna go. I, while I'm very like, grounded now in this independent consultant solopreneur identity, I could get a full time job at some point. I'm not against it. I'm not gonna say never, but I don't have the same. Like need and pull to that work to be like, I've done it.

Lynn:

Did you use any specific tools or like reflection methods to help you get there into the place of both realization and acceptance?

Arden:

so I went through this kind of business boot camp for independent consultants called IndeCollective. And one of the exercises, one of the sessions was around personal branding. And I can send you, uh, Cat Coffrin's information because I found her session really helpful. And she just asked a lot of questions and it's, it's interesting that, the redrawing your path thing. And I just, I sort of came to the conclusion from it that, What I wanted to be known for was more like challenging the status quo and how do we do things differently and the why does it have to be that way energy than it was any of the areas of focus that I'd had. And I feel right now that that energy is best directed to finance and being like, why does it have to be this way? we don't need to keep assessing people for products this way. We don't need to keep building products this way. but at some point, maybe it's something else and just like recognizing that, that's. When I think about what I want to be known for from a more professional standpoint, it's much more that challenging how things have always been done than it is a specific kind of topic area. And yeah, I just, I think the other piece of it too, is that when we met, I think I was doing more like organizational development work and like career coaching and sort of helping people redefine their relationships with work and figure out how to communicate more effectively at work. and what I realized as as a solopreneur is that a lot of your time is spent marketing the thing that you're doing. And granted, I'm like, I have a marketing communications background. That's what I do. And I wasn't enjoying marketing and like selling that work.

Lynn:

Interesting.

Arden:

and so, and I didn't want to be spending that much time marketing and selling my work. And so it's a little bit, I think. In some ways, this kind of return to like finance for good is a little bit of an easier way out for me. Like it's a, it's a step that prioritizes ease, but I'm 37 going through IVF. I had a herniated disc this year and a disc replacement last year, and I need ease. Ease is the right thing for me, right now. And along the way of it being a little bit easier, I'm also doing really good work.

Lynn:

Yeah, well, and I can see that coming together that desire to be known for breaking the status quo and asking questions and like doing things differently. I can see that coming together with the desire to have the ease and the The reality is in capitalism, the way to have ease and a more comfortable lifestyle is to be working in a sector where it's financially more comfortable. So while you can do that, I think in the social impact sector, in the work itself, you're not also going to be overlapping with ease and comfort. I love that because you can be known for that in any sector that you choose and it's okay to choose ease.

Arden:

Yeah, it is.

Lynn:

Yeah. Arden, what advice would you give to others who are considering redrawing their own path? It's a process of letting go, and it's a process that took me, again 10 to

Arden:

15 years to do, which is like letting go of like, You don't have to do what everyone else is doing. You don't have to want what everyone else wants, that it really does require you to, get in touch with what's actually important to you, and try and shed those other expectations and what other people have put on you, which You know, easier said than done. but it's, for me, like asking myself these questions of what do I want to be known for was really helpful. And, it turns out that I don't want to be known for being a VP at Goldman, which is a job that I got to a final round for sorry, VP of Goldman, ultra high net worth clients,

Lynn:

ultra high net worth. I, yes.

Arden:

Ultra. That job would have started in like December 2019. So can you imagine? so yeah, like really trying to get to the heart of what do you want to be known for? And then also, yeah, recognizing that I think letting go of the perfectionism of getting to your perfect vision too, right? Like you're not gonna find, I think I was really initially looking for what's the perfect work for me as a solopreneur, right? And there are trade offs. And I am choosing ease over talking to people on podcasts all day. but I'm also choosing less stressful clients over maybe making twice as much, because that's, again, more important to me, even though that money has its own ease trade offs, as you mentioned. And so I think that's part of it too, is Letting, letting other people's motivations kind of bounce off of you better. And then also being a little bit gentler with yourself about what, what does that path look like? And. Finally, just there are different seasons of your life. whatever you choose now is not going to have to be the forever thing. Make the best decision with the information that you have right now and what feels good right now, and you can change your mind later. we have a long, we have a long life to live and probably a lot of life to work, and we can only make the best decisions that, that we can in the moment.

Lynn:

Cool. I love that. So to recap, let it go. Shed those expectations. And, I'm so glad you mentioned this last piece of advice because I think about a year ago when we first connected, that was the the advice that like really hit me was like, oh, you can change your mind. And I was like, what? I'm 39 and nobody has ever told me this.

Arden:

Yeah.

Lynn:

You can change. And there are seasons.

Arden:

There are seasons. And I think if you're true to that, what do you want to be known for piece that like that thread is actually going to be pretty consistent. Like we were talking about for me, regardless of the work focus. And so I think, obviously I am a content thought leadership kind of writer person. And so I think about How does this changing your mind come out online, right? Or like in your communications and no one really cares. No one really cares what you're doing specifically, tactically, like the people that buying from you do. But if you're consistently showing up, like with your values and talking about the things that are important to you and talking about how you think, then that's going to translate to other things. And so it doesn't, don't feel like you're wasting time on that if you shift and do something else later. and also like the one piece of advice I got that I really like is No one is paying as much attention to your business as you are.

Lynn:

It is so, so true. okay, Arden, I have appreciated having you here so much. I cannot wait to get this out to listeners. Where can people find you? and is there anything else you would want to share with folks?

Arden:

Yeah. people can find me, my favorite place to share is on Instagram. My kind of professional public profile is at@ardentalks. com. We're just really we're visualizing this talk show future. So I talk, so Talks is in the name. and then you can also find me on LinkedIn. I'm talking a lot right now on Instagram about my own fertility journey and trying to be really open with folks about that and just like transparent about what I'm going through and like welcome people to, Follow and ask questions around that too. It has nothing to do with money other than the fact that it is incredibly expensive. Um, but it is something that I want people to have a little bit more education and information about.

Lynn:

I love that. And I love that you're really taking your own journey and sharing it with others so that it can create more spaces of safety and share that education with folks because we need to be talking about all of these things. Um, work and fertility and all expenses and all of the things. Let's talk about them. cool. Well, thank you so much, Arden. Thanks for listening to Redraw Your Path with me, Lynn Debilzen. If you like the episode, please rate and review. That helps more listeners find me. And don't be shy, reach out and connect with me on LinkedIn and sign up for my e-newsletter at redrawyourpath.com. I can't wait to share more inspiring stories with you. See you next week.