You Are Worthy, Let Yourself Relax a Bit | Ep. 030 - Dr. Melissa Corley Carter Artwork

Redraw Your Path

Redraw Your Path is a weekly podcast that elevates stories of inspirational, introspective people who have taken a unique path in life. Guests talk with Host Lynn Debilzen about their moments of messiness, fear, and reframing to give you a real glimpse into what each turn was like.

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Redraw Your Path

You Are Worthy, Let Yourself Relax a Bit | Ep. 030 - Dr. Melissa Corley Carter

July 24, 2024 • Lynn Debilzen • Episode 30

Join host Lynn Debilzen in this fun interview with Melissa Corley Carter on Redraw Your Path!

In this interview, Lynn learns about Melissa’s journey to becoming The Barefoot Dancing Rocket Scientist, from advancing her career in the Air Force, being rejected as an astronaut despite her credentials, and becoming a leadership coach and author. Their conversation touches on:

How sometimes other people and the universe may know better what you need in your path, especially when you’re likely to make fear-based decisions
The impact of wrapping your entire identity around a career, and what happens when you’re redirected or that’s taken away from you
How discovering life at a different pace can create space for reflection and redrawing

Tune in for a dynamic discussion on life and growth!

About Melissa:

Dr. Melissa Corley Carter, The Barefoot Dancing Rocket Scientist, uses basic principles of rocket science to help rockstar humans reclaim their power, own their awesomeness, and take giant leaps of faith.

An actual rocket scientist, 7 continents marathoner, astronaut reject, speaker, award-winning author, and certified professional coach, Melissa will inspire you to celebrate the power of who you are and to ignite your passion for the life you live.

Before becoming a coach, Melissa spent twenty years aspiring to become an astronaut. In pursuit of that goal she earned two engineering degrees from Stanford University, a commission as an officer in the U.S. Air Force, and a PhD in astronautical engineering from the Naval Postgraduate School. Despite perfect vision after corrective eye surgery, her pre-surgical eyesight disqualified her and shattered her astronaut dream.

In the years since, she’s realized that her dream emerged from an intuitive knowing of her spiritual connection with the universe, from a desire to inspire people to greatness the way astronauts had always inspired her, and from the vision of a unified and harmonious world. In her daily dance with the universe now, she's truly living her dream.

Melissa is the author and photographer of the award-winning 2021 coffee table book, "Running the World: Marathon Memoirs from the Seven Continents," and the companion wisdom card deck, "Running YOUR World." In her book she shares her outer journey across the continents and her inner journey of recovering from shattered dreams and realigning her life with powerful purpose. Her wisdom cards will guide you to pause, reflect, align your own life with powerful purpose, and take inspired action toward your dreams.

Melissa’s journey has taught her that identity and goals are not synonymous, that even major disappointments hold gifts beyond imagining, and that every experience invites us to take a small step — or a giant leap — into greater alignment with who we really are.

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Connect with Melissa:
Get her book and companion wisdom card deck: https://www.epiclifeactually.com/shop

Website: https://www.epiclifeactually.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melissacorleycarter
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/melissacorleycarter
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/melissacorleycarter
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@melissacorleycarter

Resources mentioned:

Julia Cameron’s The Artist’s Way

Connect with Lynn:

www.redrawyourpath.com
www.lynndebilzen.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/lynndebilzen/

Lynn: 0:00

Hey friends, I'm Lynn Debilzen and welcome to Redraw Your Path, a podcast where I share stories of people who have made big changes in their lives and forged their own unique paths. I talk with guests about their moments of messiness, fear, and reframing on their way to where they are now. My goal is to inspire you about the shape your life could take. So let's get inspired. Hello, hello, it's your friend Lynn and I'm really thrilled to drop another exciting interview for you. I found such inspiration in my guest's story and her advice is phenomenal, specifically around sunk cost. So I invite you to listen all the way until the end to hear that advice. You're not going to want to miss it. So this week I interviewed Dr. Melissa Corley Carter. She is the barefoot dancing rocket scientist. Yes, all true, barefoot dancing rocket scientist. And she uses basic principles of rocket science to help rockstar humans reclaim their power, own their awesomeness, and take giant leaps of faith. An actual rocket scientist, seven continents marathoner. Yes, she has run marathons on seven continents. An astronaut reject, a speaker, an award winning author, and certified professional coach. Melissa will inspire you to celebrate the power of who you are and to ignite your passion for the life you live. She is the author and photographer of the award winning coffee table book, Running the World Marathon Memoirs from the Seven Continents, and the companion Wisdom Card Deck, Running Your World. I'm including all of those links in the show notes. She was just such a delight to interview and Her fusing of so many different identities throughout her lifetime is just really inspiring. I hope you enjoy. I can't wait to hear what you think. Welcome to Redraw Your Path. Melissa, how are you?

Melissa: 1:59

I'm doing really well and thank you. I'm excited to be here.

Lynn: 2:02

Oh, I am so excited to hear your journey. I have a few paragraphs from your bio and I'm really excited to bring that to life today. so where I like to start with all guests is tell me where and how you grew up. Give me the context of little Melissa's life.

Melissa: 2:20

I grew up in Dallas, Texas and a little Melissa had honestly a pretty happy childhood. I lived in suburbia. I actually have an identical twin sister. So I grew up, my, my sister and I were, always doing kind of everything together. So I think a lot of my early life. revolves around being a twin, because we just did everything together and went through life together. We lived three blocks away from my grandparents, and just felt like loved. And so I feel very grateful for the way that I grew up. I, had a good school, had really good friends, and I actually went to, I did go to a private school. I was at that school for 10 years. So I basically grew up with my classmates and that was a really fun experience too. yeah,

Lynn: 3:05

Was it just you and your sister in your family?

Melissa: 3:08

it was, yes.

Lynn: 3:08

Okay, cool. Parents married? Okay, awesome. I'm just thinking, let's dig into that more. Was the private school like religious affiliated at all or?

Melissa: 3:18

Actually, no, which I liked. So it was actually, it was an all girls school and it was the only private all girls school that was not religious affiliated. So it was just a woman who thought that all girls education was important and started a girl's school. I think it went really well because I was super shy when I was little. And so I think that, we could go off on a tangent about, single sex education, but, but I do think that For me, anyway, it was really helpful because I was able to develop my confidence and all of that. the reason we switched actually was because in second grade, my mom said that we would come home from school and we were bored and the teachers would give extra work to the boys, but not to the girls. So it seems crazy that in our lifetime, that's a thing, but, but it was, and education was important to my family. And so they were like, what should we do differently? so they ended up switching us to, to this school. and I think it was just amazing. So really cool opportunity.

Lynn: 4:12

that's awesome. So it sounds like that education piece was really important. were there any other expectations you grew up with or, values that your parents tried to set you up with as you went out into the world.

Melissa: 4:27

definitely education. That was a really big one. and also I think, being high character, moral fiber, that kind of thing. just, there was, I think it expectation of excellence. I don't know that I felt like it's easy to look back and be like, Oh, everybody put all this pressure on me to be perfect. but I feel like I put a lot of that pressure on myself. I don't feel like I was going to get punished if I didn't get good grades. I was certainly celebrated for getting good grades, which might've internalized must get good grades. but, I enjoyed it. I enjoyed school. I enjoyed excelling at school. So I think probably, the one. One area when I was younger that my parents didn't necessarily prioritize and I didn't end up, I guess developing all that much was physical fitness. not physical fitness in general, but, but sports, like we weren't on sports teams or anything like that. So my sister and I were both on the debate team, my mom really wanted us to be on the debate team. I guess that might've been an expectation, but that was, so it was more, it was definitely more on the academic side than the athletic side. Parental, family expectations, I guess you would say.

Lynn: 5:23

Awesome. being on the debate team is so fun, and I can imagine your family dinners growing up.

Melissa: 5:29

Yeah, actually, our family dinners, that was also something that I think was probably really helpful. Our parents required us to bring home at every dinner, two things that we had learned in school that day. it was really funny because my sister and I were going to school together and sometimes we'd be in the same classes and something interesting, the teacher would say something interesting class and we'd be like, that's my thing. And that's my thing. So we'd have to find two different things, right? So we were always like on the lookout for what thing we were going to share at the dinner table.

Lynn: 5:52

Oh my gosh, I love that. That's such a fun, daily activity.

Melissa: 5:56

Yeah.

Lynn: 5:57

Did your parents share the same as well? what did they learn each day?

Melissa: 6:01

Actually, no, I love that though. That would have been really cool. So yeah, I think that would have been great. So yeah, so we did the what did we learn at school? And also the other thing was, as being twins, and my mom started this when we were super little, and this was so normal to me, it doesn't usually occur to me to bring it up, because it's just doesn't everybody do this? but we had, the leader. So every other day, one of us was the leader. And, and and that started from when, I think, in kindergarten or whatever, there was a line leader, the whole class gets in a line, you go out to recess or whatever. and so when we were little, the leader got their teeth brushed first, and get their hair done first, and all those little tasks. So, When we were little, it was like great to be the leader. And then when we got older, the leader cleaned up after dinner and, wasn't like making the salads. And that was like, we'd make salads and one for a while, like one of us liked doing the lettuce and one of us like doing this, but I call it tomatoes. And the other person had to do the lettuce. And, but anyway, the leader would clean up the dishes after dinner. So ah, being the leader, maybe not so exciting.

Lynn: 6:56

yeah. there are hard tasks that go with being a leader too.

Melissa: 7:00

Little did we know how to learn learning about that in life, but anyway, so that was a, another fun little thing that we did.

Lynn: 7:06

that's awesome. I love that. I remember reading as a kiddo and I feel like so many books had twins as the main characters and so like I always deeply wanted a twin. cool. Yeah, So you have like kind of expectations of Oh, yeah. Work hard in school or academics, education, being a, upstanding citizen, if you will. and were you and your sister pretty much the, both excellent at school and both? Okay, cool. so let's bring, listeners up to today. Melissa, where and how do you currently spend your days?

Melissa: 7:44

so today I live in Virginia, outside the D. C. area. I will say that my husband and I are planning on moving to North Carolina in a year, the mountains of western North Carolina. we're super excited about that. to not be in the greater D. C. area. Because the traffic and just, oh my gosh, it's, it's, it can be challenging. we're looking forward to our getaway. all that said, what I am doing these days, incidentally, is Talking about redrawing our path, I did, redraw my path last September, actually, in that I have been, since 2015, an Air Force reservist. I was active duty for a while, and we'll get into all that, but, but I was a reservist, teaching leadership and doing coaching and things like that, and, and then, developing my, coaching business in my civilian time. And actually, last September, I actually switched back to full time Air Force reserve duty. which I didn't. Ever expect to do. But I had an amazing opportunity land in, in that I actually got to do some leadership and, leadership coaching and leadership development and all that kind of thing, full time in my Air Force Reserve job. part, it's part telework and part in the office. so that is, that has, changed how I was working, until then, but it has been. So rewarding and so just cool all around. So basically I am, supporting my Air Force Reserve team, supporting the active duty team and getting to do what I love in all areas of my life. And, and then, and also I have some private clients, as well, when I'm not doing that. So that's the mainstay of what I'm doing. and also we're building a house in North Carolina. So so we're making design decisions and things like, so that has, how that has ramped up. You know, another full time job at the moment. So

Lynn: 9:19

so much mental energy, so good for you, and, love that you're full time, and it's actually helpful because as a, non military person, I always thought reserves were like the weekend folks, and then once you are not reserve, you're like active, but you can be full time and reserve at the same time.

Melissa: 9:38

Yes. And actually also the weekend thing is the way you think of a traditional reservist. there's different kinds of reservists and the kind of reservist I was not the weekend one, it was what's called an IMA or an individual mobilization augmentee, which means you do a regular job and you have the same number of days per year. So let's say, so it's around like 40 days a year basically. And and I, but I would go in on a weekday and so where I had been working in my part-time was our internal, in the organization I work for at internal universities. So say we'd have a three day class, I would just plan, we'd plan our class schedule a year out. So I would plan my days for the year around what classes I taught. okay, if there's a three day class, I'll pop in for those three days. And as a self employed person, it was easy to work my schedule around it. And so yeah, so there are types of reservists that it's not just the whole unit goes on the same weekend. This is like everyone randomly does whenever they can on whenever it works. and then yes, there is something, then there's something called, basically being on full time orders early. Long term orders as a reservist. and so yes, you can do that as a reservist and still be full time.

Lynn: 10:37

Cool. Okay. Thank you for that education because we're all learning together here. And tonight when mom and dad asked me what I've learned today, I can say

Melissa: 10:47

Nice. Nice. I

Lynn: 10:49

no, that's really helpful. Cool. So you're doing leadership coaching through your full time reservist role, and serving clients on the side as well. Awesome. Okay. So let's back up again. We're going to go back to coming out of that suburb in Dallas, Texas and really strong education. You were on the debate team. so I'm assuming you went on to some sort of academic career next. Let's talk about that. What did that look like coming out of, let's start at maybe high school? What does that look like for you?

Melissa: 11:24

So I went to Stanford for college and actually my sister did too. we didn't go to the same college just because the other one was going, but we both actually happened to like it the best. So it ended up being a really cool experience to be there together. And we did Air Force ROTC, both of us. so there was certainly the strong academic side and then the, the. military development side, and which was also kind of the leadership crucible, so I do like to laugh about the daily, every other day leader thing, leading to leadership being one of the big things that has become so important to me. in ROTC, we learned so much. That got a lot of responsibility and leading our peers and things like that. So that was really cool. And, and of course the Stanford community was just amazing. I did redraw my path there a little bit. I went in as a physics major and made it through about half of my first quarter of physics at Stanford and was like, Oh, maybe not. and I, yeah. I, I, if I had maybe started on a different physics track, I might've been able to stick with it. I don't know. But, but I did end up switching to mechanical engineering, which I think in the end had a lot more practical application for me. as I reflect back on my experience at Stanford, I realized that the classes I enjoyed the most and did the best in were basically the kinesthetic ones where I was actually doing something or building something. So my mechanical engineering shop class was one All time favorite classes. I, we got to learn so many different things just hands on and learning different machines and ideas about the, the creative process and things like that. and then once I ended up on the, aeronautics and astronautics track as well, and got to work in a class where we literally built a CubeSat, which. At the time, I don't know how familiar you are with CubeSats or, satellites or anything, but they were just starting to be a thing. My professor was one of the ones who started the concept of the CubeSat, and now everybody in the world builds CubeSats and launches CubeSats and things like that.

Lynn: 13:10

I've never heard of it,

Melissa: 13:11

okay.

Lynn: 13:12

like, wait, I have not had the chance to build my cube set yet.

Melissa: 13:16

Yeah, it's a cool, it's like a basically a 10 centimeter by 10 centimeter cube that's a satellite and, you can put them in space. And so we were doing that at the very beginning of the, the inception of that whole concept. And so I got to do a lot of just hands on stuff and learn a lot of really cool stuff. And so that was, it was super fun.

Lynn: 13:34

Oh, awesome. Can I ask you what drew you to physics and engineering? And then what drew you to ROTC and the military in general?

Melissa: 13:44

Well, so yeah, backing up, one thing I actually skipped was that when I was in fifth grade, an astronaut came and talked to my class and I decided that I wanted to be an astronaut and I never looked back, literally followed that path for 20 years, from fifth grade to 2012. Yeah, we'll get there. but in any case, I, so I had always loved space, grew up on Star Trek and Star Wars and, just was really inspired by the space thing. and so that's, I, so I did all the math and science and that's why, and actually my senior year in high school, I had a really amazing physics teacher. And, and I think that experience inspired me, of course, I'll go major in physics. and so there was that. And then, so just the science and engineering was in my heart. That's what you do if you want to be an astronaut. and the military actually. So we had also been, to space camp when we were little. And, and so my sister and I actually went to every possible level is we went to space camp, we went to space academy, and then they have a thing called aviation challenge, which is actually a more military, thing. So I flew a plane before I drove a car, actually. So we got to fly once and we would fly simulators and we did escape and evasion, like crawling through the woods at night, that kind of thing. and so we did all of these different levels and eventually we asked them like, what's the next step after this? And they're like, the Air Force. And we're like, okay, we'll join the Air Force.

Lynn: 14:56

Both of you did. You did say that. Both of you did Air Force ROTC. Were you both like engineering path?

Melissa: 15:03

I actually know. So what happened was we both started as physics majors. I switched my freshman year. My sister actually did physics for three years and after three years ended up switching to Russian. So she ended up majoring in Slavic languages and literatures. And so we went different directions. So she ended up becoming an intelligence officer and I became an engineer, like a developmental engineer as an officer.

Lynn: 15:23

Wow. Oh my gosh. I'm just picturing two excuse my language, but two badass young like sixth graders crawling through the woods and flying airplanes. And I'm like, gosh, I wish I had an all girls education. That's so amazing.

Melissa: 15:39

Yeah, I can't lie. I feel truly grateful to have had the experiences I've had in life. Oh,

Lynn: 15:43

Yeah, very cool. Okay, so Stanford, Mechanical Engineering and working through the ROTC process. What happened then next?

Melissa: 15:54

Yeah. so then the other thing that, that actually happened there was I, so I ended up doing what, what it's called at Stanford, a co terminal degree, where you come out after five years with a bachelor's and a master's. And so I did my master's in aeronautics and astronautics, again, with the whole space thing. and so I did that. And then my first assignment, because so when you graduate, you get commissioned, and in the Air Force. And so my first assignment was at Kirtland Air Force Base in Albuquerque, New Mexico. so I went there and It's funny because I resisted the place where they assigned me because at Kirtland, there were two directorates in the Air Force Research Lab, which is where I was working. And there was the Directed Energy Directorate, which did things like, lasers and optics and things like that. And then the Space Vehicles, which did, space vehicle launches and things. And I was like, clearly I should be going to space vehicles. but they assigned me to Directed Energy and I was like, I've not actually taken an optics class. Like, why would they do that? But, the universe conspired to keep me. That's what helped keep me in Directed Energy and it was the best thing it's definitely one of my big life lessons that sometimes actually other people where they direct you in your path. Sometimes actually people know better. And gosh, I will say. I'm a really big believer in, in drawing your own path for sure. But I think sometimes I recognize that I was actually making some fear based decisions. I didn't trust myself to be able to do this job. I was like, I don't know what these people see in me, blah, blah, blah. So it was actually like lack of self esteem that was driving me to the comfortable place, right? The place that I felt safe. but they were like, no, you're going to come work in this other place. And that was totally the best thing that ever happened.

Lynn: 17:22

Oh, that's awesome. I love that. And yeah, you're right. It's not, I hear what you're saying. It's not necessarily that like others know better, but like the, it's almost like the universe has a way or God has a way or whoever, whatever has a way of giving you opportunities that you don't even know that you need.

Melissa: 17:39

Yes, exactly. Exactly. So there is a big leap of faith there of trusting that, where you are guided in your path, you don't always know how or why. it's, the thing, but, but yeah, you are always on the right path, I think.

Lynn: 17:51

Yeah. Oh, that's awesome. Okay. So how long were you there

Melissa: 17:55

So I was there for three years. in Albuquerque, New Mexico and, working like way off in the mountains on the base and, doing really cool stuff. And, and actually at that time I started running. So one of my colleagues, was a really good runner and she introduced me to long distance running. and I actually ended up signing up to run a marathon, because, so we had been running, and I was telling my mom about my running adventures, and she's like, hey, there's a marathon in Big Sur, California, where we had actually spent some, summer vacations when we were little, or in high school, middle school and high school, and so I was like, oh, wow, Gosh, I would love to be able to run on, Highway 1 in Big Sur. And that was September and the race was in April. And I was like, I could train for a marathon in that amount of time. So it never occurred to me to run a marathon. so I did, I trained for it and then found out about this thing called the Seven Continents Club, at the Race Expo, which is people who run marathons on all seven continents. And I was like, yeah, sign me up for that.

Lynn: 18:47

You decided that after running your first?

Melissa: 18:49

I decided it before running my first, like I,

Lynn: 18:52

say the expo is like before

Melissa: 18:54

it is. So I was like, so by the time the race started, I was like, yeah, I'm totally doing that. So yeah.

Lynn: 18:59

had you ever run for a hobby ever in your life before

Melissa: 19:03

not as a hobby. I didn't, basically, I had started running in ROTC because, you have a fitness test and you run together. And there was the group PT, we call it. And so I had gotten used to that. And and I, one of my college friends was on her high school track team. And so I had done some running with her in college and, And ROTC stuff. And then when I was running with my friend and my, in my assignment, it just started to become more comfortable. And so yeah, so I think that then the marathon, training for the marathon became my run thing. and so it was actually really fun. Cause I, I lived 18 miles from work. And so by the time I built up to 18 miles, the day before I was going to do my long run, I would get a friend to take me home that night. And then I would run to work in the morning. and then I would drive home cause my car was there. And but like my coworkers would be passing me and honking, on their drive in, like I'm here, running to work and they're all like cheering me on. It was really funny.

Lynn: 19:49

That's awesome. You didn't have to like wheel a laptop bag behind you

Melissa: 19:54

no, we honestly, laptops weren't even. This is like 2004 to the well, I guess that training was 2000 2006 ish and we weren't really using laptops and we couldn't do that our computers were at work.

Lynn: 20:05

Absolutely. I love that. Okay, cool. so you started running as a hobby while you were in Albuquerque. and then what was next? Or what was the big way you were working in this towards aeronautics or in that space? tell me more.

Melissa: 20:22

So the next thing I did was actually go to the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, California. So I went back to my beloved kind of Big Sur area and I got a PhD in Astronautical Engineering. So that was, that was my assignment for the next three years. So that was also very cool, like getting, basically getting paid to go to school. and so I was with other, it was mostly Navy people, but also some Air Force. And, and so that was also another, just really amazing experience and opportunity to, again, work in labs again, and, Build stuff and, and also, just work with some really interesting people and get to do like really cool group projects together. and I kept running and I did marathons on other continents and all those kinds of things.

Lynn: 21:00

I love that. Like graduate student running all seven continents. Very cool. I want to be your friend.

Melissa: 21:08

likewise. Oh, my goodness.

Lynn: 21:09

Did the Air Force know that your ultimate goal was astronaut? When they sent you for your PhD.

Melissa: 21:16

know. I mean, well, they might have. I'm sure that I mentioned it in application essays and things like that. yeah, I think that they did. and, yeah. so maybe that helped me, I don't know. But, but, yeah, I had done also had a pretty strong record and things like that. yeah.

Lynn: 21:30

Awesome. Okay, so you went and got your PhD, you became Dr. Melissa Corley Carter. what, how did you redraw your path from there? Or what was next?

Melissa: 21:40

So what was next is I actually came out to Virginia and, and basically was because my PhD was actually sponsored by, by the Air Force and this organization out here. And so I did basically what's like satellite acquisitions. it was something similar to what I had done. And so we were writing the requirements and working with the contractors who were building the satellites and things like that. so I was in a research and development, space there, and then actually, ended up, also applying to be a general's aid to camp. so like the general, you. work with the general and go on trips with her and support her, and all that kind of thing. I got a little ahead of myself, but while I was doing the space act, was when I finally was able to apply to be an astronaut. because the thing that was always in the background going on was that I had really bad eyesight. And so I was waiting for NASA to start to approve, corrective surgery. and during that time, did. cause I knew that my eyesight didn't qualify, but I just trusted the universe that eventually it would work out. And so they started allowing corrective surgery and I got LASIK in probably 2008. while I was in California, I got the LASIK and was like, okay, now I'm ready to go. So once I had my PhD, I had my perfect eyesight and all that, the next time they had a class I applied and that was going to be the class of 2012. So send in my application. That was like the most exciting thing. I was like hitting the apply button was like, Oh my gosh, this is totally happening. Yay. and it turned out that my eyesight before LASIK was so bad that I was disqualified anyway. So my medical record, the way you have to get through the Air Force process for like when you apply as a military person, your military service has to select you. you And then send forward your package to NASA. And they did. I got through the Air Force process. And, but, when they do that, your medical record goes first. so they didn't even look at the rest of my package. They were basically like, ah, eyesight, blonk, no. and ah, so that was like the big crucible moment.

Lynn: 23:33

Was there any sort of can I reapply? Was there any sort of, can I appeal the decision?

Melissa: 23:40

what I ended up finding was there was actually some fine print somewhere along the way that said if your eyesight was ever worse than like refractive error eight or something like that, then don't bother. Mine had been minus 10. so I was like, oh, so I could have. so that was a, it was a standard that they had, but I actually decided that I was so glad that I had not actually known that because I had a window about three years between getting LASIK and applying or getting the response back that I really and truly believed it was possible because I had all my life, I had, assumed that I, but I also knew that I didn't qualify. So during that window where I felt like I did qualify, I was like, of course they'll take me. who wouldn't? Thank you very much. I had no backup plan, it was like a done deal, you have to be confident, right? and I know it does sound a bit arrogant, right? But, but there's six or eight people get selected from thousands and thousands of people, but I assumed That I would make it. So anyway, all that to say, it didn't seem like appeal was the thing. It was like, nope, But so anyway, the period where I really believed it was possible, I think was really necessary for me. So I'm really glad I had that period. so yeah.

Lynn: 24:46

Can you say more about that? what did that period help you do or help you see in yourself?

Melissa: 24:53

know, I think that I had always really believed in myself and I think I was frustrated that, a physical condition, for lack of a better word, could get in the way of your dreams. I felt like my parents raised me to believe that I could do anything that I set my mind to. And incidentally, I feel like there was a little bit of a, a kind of petulant, rebellious part of me when it didn't happen. when I got rejected, I was like, what is the point? Like, why would you teach your kids that, that they can do whatever they want, when that's not actually true? But. Many, many years of processing later, I can actually say that, they were right. the thing is setting your mind to is different than your true purpose. I might, I'm getting a little, off track here, but I would say that the one of the biggest processing things for me has been learning. Everything I learned from the rejection, which was, again, the greatest gift in the entire universe. and I could talk about why, but I just want to say, I think that, it is, of course, really important to believe that you can do anything, right? but I think it wasn't the physical result of being an astronaut that was important. It was everything that kind of was behind that. And what's behind that was, yes, absolutely, belief in self and all that kind of stuff. So, so I had always really believed in myself. so once the physical part got on board, Then I was like, okay, cool. The sky is not even the limit. I can do whatever I want because I got the physical part in line. so there wasn't really anything holding me back because all the things that I could control, I had, in my own head anyway, successfully controlled.

Lynn: 26:24

Yeah. Oh my gosh. I love that lesson coming out from that because can you talk a little bit about what that period after the rejection or the decline look like? what were you going through at that point?

Melissa: 26:39

Yeah, so it was really hard. the first, it was lots of, right at the outset it was lots of crying and like calling everybody I knew and being like, oh my gosh, my parents and my, family and my friends and, and like I had, in my apartment at the time I had all my Star Trek DVDs like right out in front of my TV and I literally put them in the closet Because I would start crying when I looked at them. and it was, it was really challenging, cause it was truly devastating, I think, and because, and again, lots of reflection later, like it's, I have realized that it wasn't a part of, obviously a huge part of it was not getting to be an astronaut, which had been my dream for so long, but I think it was actually more of an identity crisis because I had literally wrapped my entire identity around creating becoming a future astronaut. Like I had told everyone I had ever met that I was going to be an astronaut and, or that I wanted to be an astronaut. and they could, they all said we could totally see you doing that. And so I was like, I was angry and frustrated too. I was like, everyone in the world thinks that I would be an amazing astronaut. Like, why do I not get to do this? That doesn't make any sense. but I was also like really afraid. I was like, what am I going to tell people? As if not being an astronaut, it makes you a worthless person. But that was, I was just like, now what, what is my. Reason for being, so I was really struggling with the whole identity question. the thing that I think that was really helpful at the time, I mentioned being, the General's aide. So I had gotten the assignment to be the General's aide like a week before this happened. so once it, once the rejection happened, I, all of a sudden, I had no time to really think about myself because I was, my schedule was the General's. And I think that. was helpful in that I, it was, I was processing in the background. obviously, I was like, had emotional stuff going on and, but, when I was at work, I had a job to do and I did it and I did it quite well. but I, but in that limbo period internally, I at least had this ex I was totally still on the external fast track, looking, like I was going places and all that kind of thing. but it gave me a little bit of space I wasn't trying to figure out my next step. I was just, consumed with my job. I do think that was super helpful. So I had just like a little breathing space, but it was, yeah, it was painful. And the identity crisis was the really big thing. what do I do now? How, who will I be if I'm not an astronaut? all that kind of thing.

Lynn: 28:45

Yeah. Did you eventually get that space to work through that? Or, I

Melissa: 28:50

I was doing it in parallel. Yeah.

Lynn: 28:52

I would wallow on the couch.

Melissa: 28:54

Yeah. I, so I think that I had my moments, but I think it was really helpful that I really didn't have time to. so I think it was happening in the background. So by the time You know, I moved on. what ended up coming out of that was, I, so I actually worked for the general. we joked that she fired me after three months, so there was, the general and then the deputy director and then the director, and the director, she took over the organization about a month after I had started working for the general. and she was telling the general, I need a military assistant. Find me someone like Melissa. And the third time she said, find me someone like Melissa, the general was like, why don't you just take Melissa? and so I ended up working for her which was also really cool. it was just a truly amazing experience. all that to say, one of the things I was observing in this experience. was like, wow, these women are super amazing, have had like really cool life paths and I don't want to be them. So I basically was like, I see the end result of where my fast track is going. And I don't want that. because my Air Force goal had always been to be an astronaut. I had no long term actually Air Force goal. So when the astronaut thing went away, I kind of always assumed I'd be in Houston at some point and didn't have to, make a decision, and so it was like, what do I want to do in the Air Force? And I was like, oh, but not this. and so that kind of sent me in another direction.

Lynn: 30:10

Okay. Do you remember, any sort of tools or practices you leaned on at that time to figure out you knew it wasn't this, it wasn't the astronaut, and then you knew it wasn't this like being. Being the high powered general, etc. how did you figure out what you were meant for?

Melissa: 30:30

that actually took, a bit longer. one of the things that I think started to creep in was, while I had been running on one of my marathon trips, my roommate, had introduced me to hot yoga which I totally love. And so I started doing hot yoga and, learning about the concept of mindfulness and, there's this two minutes of asana time. And, the little nuggets of life lessons, like like how you are on the mat is how you are in the world and being, gracious with yourself and compassionate with yourself. And even though the postures are the same, every single time, it's always a new class and you come with a new body and, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. All of those little lessons. were, kind of integrating, and I was learning about this other side of life. And, I think that was probably one of my big tools, was, was learning, How to do life at a different pace. and reflection and things like that. and so then I took some leadership classes and, this is now a couple years after the astronaut thing. And after I had completed my experience with the leadership, I went to a new job in Las Cruces, New Mexico, still for the same organization, but at a different place. And, there I took a three day, seven habits of highly effective people class, which is phenomenal, would highly recommend to anyone. And there was this one exercise where we were supposed to be writing our mission statements. just free rights, mission statement, and so I was doing that, and at the end of it, I was like, okay, nothing that I wrote about had anything to do with my actual job. it was all about this other stuff that was important to me, and I was like, huh, that's super interesting. And so I had this big aha in that class of if I can excel this much at something I'm not passionate about, how much more could I excel at something I really am passionate about? and so that was my big takeaway. I started to think what else is out there? that's where it started.

Lynn: 32:09

Yeah, that's so powerful. I love yoga for all the lessons it gives us. were you having to do any reframing of yourself? in terms of I'm Melissa, the astronaut. Oh, wait, no, I'm Melissa, the Air Force, General's aid. Oh, wait, no, I'm Melissa, the yogi. I'm Melissa, the leadership coach. what was that looking like inside your head?

Melissa: 32:32

Yeah, so it's super interesting because actually when I was in Las Cruces, I did Toastmasters for a little while. and one of the first things you have to do is an introductory speech. And I remember actually recognizing that when I did my speech, it was the first time I had ever made a speech or given an intro of myself that was not about my desire to be an astronaut. because that had always been my thing and I was like, okay, well, that's not there. so it actually was about running a marathon on all seven continents, which incidentally, I actually finished my last continent the same year that the astronaut rejection happened. So I had these two major life goals. One, ostensibly crashed and burned. And the other one was like super successful, all in the same year. So I was like, that seems, important somehow. so I think one of my identities became that person who had run a marathon on all seven continents. and so I would talk about that and that was the journey and, one of my favorite quotes at the time, I have some different opinions now, but there's this really cool quote that I love that was, every morning in Africa, a gazelle wakes up. it knows it must outrun the fastest lion or it'll be killed. and every morning a lion wakes up, it knows it must outrun the slowest gazelle or it will starve to death and it's, it doesn't matter whether you're a lion or gazelle, when the sun comes up, you'd better be running.

Lynn: 33:38

mm I love

Melissa: 33:39

that was always super inspiring for me. and again, now with different pace of life, I'm like, ah, okay, maybe not. When the sun comes up, you better be running. But like when the sun comes up, like how aligned with your purpose are you, like how are you running on the path of life? So I think that was where my identity started to shift a little bit.

Lynn: 33:56

Cool. I love that. Thank you for sharing that. And that quote is incredibly powerful. what was the next big way you redrew your path from there?

Melissa: 34:06

so the biggest way then was actually leaving active duty. so with that whole kind of mission realization of I don't know what my purpose is, but I don't feel like it's what I'm doing. I, was basically like, okay, what can I do next? And there were some reserve opportunities where, I had the opportunity to become, a reservist and teach those same classes with that group. so I was like, okay, so again, I did leap into the unknown without knowing what was next. I had some inklings of this whole concept of life coaching, that was starting to become more of a thing and. My sister had introduced me to, a book called Take Time for Your Life by Cheryl Richardson, I think, and we had read it together and I was like, okay, so let's talk about chapter one and let's talk about chapter two. So we did that kind of reading thing together. And, so it was the really big redrawing my path of leaving active duty that I had assumed that I would just, you know, kind of be on for, I'd always said I'll do it as long as I'm enjoying it. but you have in the back of your mind, like the whole 20 year, 20 year retirement thing. and so a lot of people actually thought I was crazy. They're like, you're 11 years in, it's only nine more years. what are you thinking? And I was like, you know what? I projected the fast track proverbial fast track. I projected it out nine years and I was like, I don't want to do that. I think I'm going to be miserable if I do that. And so it actually was a little, it was surprising to people, but it was also, I think again, a really big leap of faith to say, you know what, I'm not going to worry about the active duty retirement. I did, I, again, I was fortunate to get a reserve position, so I still got to stay in the community and still in the Air Force. I actually just hit my 20 years, like a couple of weeks ago.

Lynn: 35:31

Wow.

Melissa: 35:32

yeah. Thank you. Thank you. So it's the reserve retirement. Obviously, it's very different, but, but it wasn't about that. it wasn't about the money or the, whatever. so anyway, so I, I had the reserve thing and then I was basically like, I'll just see what happens. and so then I started, I learned about coaching and I went through a life coach program. So I got, became a certified coach and then just, followed where it led. Then I was like, I'll get certified in this thing. I'll get certified in that. So I did lots of dabbling in different modalities and whatever. and still was wondering for a while. I feel like I have gone in lots of different directions, and thought that I was going to do this kind of coaching. And then I thought I was going to do that kind of coaching. and then it was. It was just, following the steps where they led and then writing a book and creating a card deck. And so all that stuff was like one step at a time learning and without, without being able to predict it.

Lynn: 36:17

Absolutely. can I ask Melissa, when you were hearing those voices around you of are you crazy? You're going to give up, the 11 years you've put in and not make it to the 20 year retirement. what was coming up for you then? And like, how did you really quiet those voices or like take them in and know what was right for you. I, and I guess like this question is coming from my listeners know I'm a people pleaser to the max, right? And I never want to let anyone down. So I'm curious if that was anything that came up for you as you were navigating that decision.

Melissa: 36:52

yes. I'll say that I think that the ones who were like, are you crazy? that didn't really bother me because I knew, I absolutely knew that it was the right decision. But I am also a people pleaser, so I totally get it. And walking into my commander's office who I was actually like good friends with him too like walking in to tell him that I was leaving was so hard I was like how do I tell the general who invested so much in me you know that I'm leaving you know the Typically, the reason they do that is because they expect to see you like go places. and so I, I did feel a little bit guilty that all these people had taken a chance on me and was I letting them down? And, and so I was terrified going into my commander's office and at the end, I was like, I should have known, I should have given him the benefit of the doubt. He was so amazing. He was basically like, I totally get it. he's like, what can I offer you? you're going to not be happy at the end of it. And other people were telling me, I wish I had the courage to do that, to leave the security and do something more fun. Sometimes it just feels like a grind, right? and so I think a lot of people stick with it and think it's crazy to leave because they don't know what else they would do. And they don't know if they have the, the wherewithal to land on their feet, as it were. And so for some people, I think Maybe it feels like a lack of options or something. And so there's a sense, just a sense of obligation or just a sense of I don't know what would be better. I don't know what else I could do. And I was like, I don't know what else I can do, but I know I can. and so anyway, so I did feel some guilt and some trepidation about telling my mentors that I was, going in a completely different direction. But they were just all really amazing about it and so supportive and it was So helpful to feel like, Oh, they get it and they're not going to, they're not going to try to hold me, because they see that there is something else out there. so I think that was, that was really helpful.

Lynn: 38:30

that's really beautiful. And I'm so happy for you that you have that experience, when making that decision, because, and it sounds like you just knew, you knew that there was something else, but it wasn't the current path you were on. thank you for sharing

Melissa: 38:44

you're so welcome.

Lynn: 38:46

there any other ways that you redrew your path after that? You built, you've built a coaching business, you've written a book. Have you ran more marathons? tell me more about any other redraws.

Melissa: 38:59

So I haven't run more marathons in a while. The last one I ran, so I finished the Continents in 2012. The last marathon I ran was in 2015. so that was a while ago. but I will say that, one of the other ways I redrew my path was when I, was with my book. So I had three books. I thought that I was going to write a book about leadership and I kept, trying to figure out what the, what I could say about leadership that other people hadn't said. I was like, everyone and their dog has written a book about leadership. what am I going to say that is any different? And, I was beating my head against the wall And, and it was really interesting because I had been through a lot of courses and creativity stuff. And, the artist's way, Julia Cameron's artist's

Lynn: 39:33

Mm-Hmm.

Melissa: 39:34

so I had done lots of different stuff And I had gotten to this one point where I was like, what is my purpose? what am I doing? what am I supposed to be doing? and then like within the hour, it was literally like the first time I've kind of felt the whole, angels started singing and voice from the sky, I was like, what do I already have? Cause that was one of my mentors asked the question, what do you already have? and if like it was already here, what would you be doing? And one of the things that had come up for me with was photography. But then I was thinking about what do I already have? I was like. Coffee table book. Like I, I have all my photos in the marathons. I have all my stories in the marathons. here I'm beating my head against the wall trying to write this other thing that I have to create. And obviously I had to create the other one. but for some reason, the coffee table book idea landed and I was like, boom, that is it.

Lynn: 40:16

Cool.

Melissa: 40:17

so there was a, a redraw of what am I even writing about or what am I doing? What am I creating in the world? and that one just felt so right. so yeah, that was super amazing.

Lynn: 40:26

once you like landed on the idea, did you have any more moments of what am I doing, who I am not, did that come up at all?

Melissa: 40:34

Actually, it didn't. I definitely, I had some struggles and I had some delays, so I will say, about a month and a half after the idea, my mom passed away.

Lynn: 40:42

I'm so sorry.

Melissa: 40:44

thank you. Thank you. All of that and processing and kind of stuff. So I think the book kind of was on hold for a little bit. but I think that it actually really impacted the book that I wrote. I think had that not happened, it would have been a completely different book that I wrote. and it's not like I, wrote the book about her, but it was just life, a lot of life processing. And, I do see a lot of her influence in it. but for example, I didn't doubt myself as a writer, I had actually always been celebrated a writer. I did all the math and science cause I wanted to be an astronaut, but I had to work harder at it than English. Like I could whip out a 10 page paper about Hamlet and get an A plus, it's like do that in one night and get an A plus on it. and so I knew that I could write really well. and, and I knew that I had a really amazing response to my photos over the years. And so I didn't really doubt the creation process. it was still, it was hard. there were times when I'd get stuck and I'd be like, what goes here? But I learned that asking questions, and this was like exactly what happened with the idea for the book. what is my purpose? Instead of just beating your head against the wall, trying to figure it out, asking a question is like the solution to everything.

Lynn: 41:46

love that. I love that. Putting that in the advice section for sure. Ask a question.

Melissa: 41:53

a question. and then it's okay, and what idea do you have next? Or what song do you hear on the radio? Or the billboard Or the whatever, like, when you ask the question, input comes in, and it doesn't have to just all come from your noggin, which is not out there to make decisions. It's just, it's for asking questions.

Lynn: 42:09

Well, that is a perfect segue, Melissa. Like what other advice would you give to folks who are redrawing their path or considering it or in the middle of it?

Melissa: 42:18

so I think the biggest piece of advice I would give is don't be afraid that everything you have invested to this point, like time, money, energy, effort, whatever, don't be afraid that it's wasted if you change directions. because everything that you have done is part of you and will be. so I know you started as an engineer and have gone this other direction. So did I. and so part of it was what did I get all these engineering degrees for if I'm going to go be a life coach, as it turns out, I use a rocket science analogy and metaphor in my coaching. So like everything. Everything is actually contributing and nothing is wasted. so one more little kind of nuance to that. I, when I was in Albuquerque in my first assignment, my friends were big poker players, and so they taught me how to play poker. and so if you're familiar with Kenny Rogers song, The Gambler, you got to know when to hold them, know when to fold them, know when to walk away, know when to run. what my friends taught me was that, and I was not very good at this, if, if you have. Put a whole bunch of money in the pot. Like usually I would be like, I can't fold because I put so much money in the pot already. and they're like, no, no, no, no, no. The second, you are not holding the winning hand, you fold. It does not matter how much money you have put in the pot, you fold, because if you keep betting, you're going to lose more money. and so where, how I apply that to this concept is that every ounce of energy and time and money and resources, whatever that you have put into your path, Discovering what is right for you is not wasted. It only becomes wasted if you know you're on the wrong path and you keep throwing basically bad money after good, right? and so if, yeah, if you're already feeling like you're not on the right path, but you feel like you have committed too much or invested too much to stop now, like that's when you start to waste it. so it is absolutely okay to redraw your path and go do something new and just trust, even if you don't know now how your past path is going to contribute, it is. It, and you will eventually discover it and it doesn't even necessarily have to be a discovery. It has made you the person you are today with the courage and the confidence to go in a different direction when other people might be like, oh my gosh, are you crazy? all that to say, nothing is wasted. Nothing is ever wasted.

Lynn: 44:18

that is phenomenal advice. it's that sunk cost fallacy, right? but I've already gone down this way. that is absolutely phenomenal advice. And I'm in the current moment applying it to my own life in some of the decisions I'm making, right? And so it is, yes, I selfishly started this podcast so I could just get great advice from people every week.

Melissa: 44:40

There you go. And you're helping other people too. So win win.

Lynn: 44:43

exactly. Exactly. Cool. Any other advice you would give?

Melissa: 44:47

yeah, I would say trust the process and just know that you are already powerful, unique, and awesome. you don't have to prove anything or check boxes or anything to live a worthwhile life. Like you are here on this planet, therefore you are worthy to exist and to live an amazing life. So let yourself just relax a little bit. You have nothing to prove.

Lynn: 45:08

Snaps to that also. Thank you. Melissa, where can people find you? And is there anything you would want to share with listeners?

Melissa: 45:17

Sure. yeah, so I'm at epiclifeactually. com, cause your epic life actually is rocket science. That's sort of my thing. And, and so you can find me there. my book and my, wisdom card deck that goes with the book are there too. and I also do like a weekly wisdom card draw. So I'll draw a card from my deck. and post a little video about it on social media. So I'm on Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn at Melissa Corley Carter. Instagram is my favorite one, my favorite platform. Oh, also on YouTube. but anyway, so Instagram is, probably the best social media platform. it took me a really long time to build it. Buy into social media. I didn't join it till like 2021, but, and I sort of post and run. But, I do just love to share inspirational content. so anyway, but yeah, epiclifeactually. com is where you can find me. And I, again, I would just love everybody to know how amazing they are and just say, shine your light.

Lynn: 46:05

Awesome. I love that. And I will include all of those links in the show notes. And I know listeners are going to be taking away a lot from today's episode. So thank

Melissa: 46:15

Aw, thank you so much, Lynn. It's been a pleasure.

Lynn: 46:20

Thanks for listening to Redraw Your Path with me, Lynn Debilzen. If you like the episode, please rate and review. That helps more listeners find me. And don't be shy, reach out and connect with me on LinkedIn and sign up for my e-newsletter at redrawyourpath.com. I can't wait to share more inspiring stories with you. See you next week.